"Banish the word 'struggle' from your attitude and your vocabulary. All that we do now must be done in a sacred manner and in celebration. We are the ones we have been waiting for." — Hopi elders
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August 1, 2009
I've just been taking part in a very challenging discussion, wherein a couple of militant vegans took turns posting party line vegan-ISM rhetoric in a manner which seemed to pre-empt any real human communication.
I suppose I needed to bump my head into that wall again?
But is there some way other than say, the Amish community's
(the largest and longest lasting "intentional community" in the U.S., I think?)
..way of dealing with people who refuse to adhere to common standards of non-violent communication, which is "shunning" .. basically the same thing that is well-known in Internet community as a whole: Do Not Feed the Trolls.
I would prefer that all humans would be able to communicate from a space of love, tolerance, respect.
I would have THOUGHT that people attracted to "intentional community" might've put these fundamental pieces in place .... in place of closed-mindedness, dogma-bound thought, etc.
(well, actually for about a minute I DID think that, but I admit I WAS WRONG.)
How do YOU make peace in your world ?
How many efforts do you make to request that people communicate in nonviolent fashion before you simply write them off as not housebroken ?
Comments
Its a..
— Aug 01, 2009
long road.
Communtication in the communities can be hard becuase some people just push eachother's buttons and end up in cycles of missing eachother's points entirely.
I've seen community meetings last 2 or 3 hours just becuase two people of ten or so are having an argument. They get clouded by anger and start seeing through ridgid lenses.
Dogma happens A LOT at these places....some more than others.
I found the community settings are places to start learning how to get beyond this....they are places to start to learn new ways of being...yet they aren't all the way there yet!
Same thing with this site....we are in a process.
As for the militant vegans marching in.....you marched in on them! You posted in an activist thread....and calling an "activist" a "militant" is bound to make the water boil.{you are asking for it in a lot of ways as activists have a lot of fire}
I do think you made some great points on ISMs...how do we describe ourselves and our communities without using them?
shared beliefs vs dogma
— Aug 01, 2009
would be the way I would think that one might work to not only describe oneself or a community but to EMBODY this distinction.
You or I could be a person who enjoys a vegan diet without being a person who is captured by veganISM.
As I mentioned in that other thread, imho a community needs above all, two things:
Absolute commitment to to uplifting non-violent communication.
A very strong common purpose &/or shared belief.
Putting those pieces in place without enshrining an ISM would seem reasonably doable, unless the #2 item specifically were an ISM (which is fine, but then the community is as mentioned in that other thread one where xyzISM is expected of all members .. like in a monastery, where you may be allowed in while you are building up your inner supply of the xyz ISM.)
How do you feel about the priority I suggest as #1
and what would be one or more suggestions for #2 that might fit in a community which you yourself would choose to become involved in?
warm wishes,
david hartley 510.859.4050 Â
www.holistiq.com
I.T. support: www.cafegratitude.com
co-founder: www.GratefulMindandBody.com
web developer
I'm visiting...
— Aug 02, 2009
a Sufi community in a week. We'll see if I come across strong dogma and what it functions like.
SufISM yes a religious ISM community....but it looks like a great place.
sufis
— Aug 02, 2009
Yah, all the Sufis I ever met were extremely loving & kind people; they never proselytize .. and they have GREAT poetry ;)
I hope you'll get the opportunity to join their community in zikr ..
(which is commonly known as "dances of universal peace"
and used to be called "Sufi dancing")
warm wishes,
david hartley 510.859.4050 Â
www.holistiq.com
I.T. support: www.cafegratitude.com
co-founder: www.GratefulMindandBody.com
web developer
Dietary Freedom
— Jan 07, 2010
I think it's important that everyone be able to respect each other's dietary choices. I think a lot of us know what it's like to be ridiculed at the family dinner table because we refuse to partake in the meat, and even what it's like to be the one doing the ridiculing. Society has really weird attitudes connected with food, and we have to be aware of when we reinforce negative attitudes.
I don't think it's wise for people to identify so strongly with their diet that it causes this kind of friction. I've read somewhere that veganism can be compared to an eating disorder in the way that some people take it to extremes in a subconscious effort to control some aspect of their life. By controlling our diet we gain a sense of power, discipline, and influence over a world that we feel is overwhelming.
Exercising some measure of restraint over one's diet, and making healthful and compassionate choices about our food are all great ideas. But if your disagreements over what your friends/housemates are eating escalates beyond simple banter, then maybe you need to think a little harder about why that is...
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