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May 5, 2009
Hello all,
I have some philosophical questions regarding the use of reason (and discernment) within spiritual experience and about philosophical understanding (or at least an attempt at understanding) of such direct empirical experiences within a larger metaphysics (inclusive of such experiences and of non-conventional levels of "physics"). It seems clear to me that the dominant mode of consciousness in contemporary society is too rationalistic and not empirical enough. Too many of us "moderns"clearly live within our own rational constructs instead of in the actual, ineffable, undifferentiated world. In light of this modern deficiency, the importance of cultivating and"sustaining non-thoughtform energy" seems very relevant. My open-minded skepticism comes into view at this point. How can we know(epistemologically) that feeling based intelligence (percieving energy empirically) wont decieve us through a disconnect with true contiguous/undifferentiated reality like"rationally" based intelligence?
I have what I feel is an elemental view of the nature of "reason". "Reason" for me is simply the cordoning off or dividing of any aspect of the undifferentiated world, and then either qualifying or quantifying the different cordoned pieces with values which are relative to each other. This is the most expansive and foundational view of reason that I can imagine. It is influenced by mystical Stoic philosophy, which says that the true nature or identity of human beings is the divine and interconnected web of Logos (or divine Reason). It seems to me that if reason is defined this way, then such dividing or cordoning and evaluating of the quanta or (more likely) qualia of empirical,spiritual (non-thoughtform) experience would mean that reason is being employed in such experiences. When engaging with these non-thoughtform energies, what is the place of reason?
Comments
For sure, for sure...
— Jun 11, 2009
Its easy to play the mystic, safe within the view from the whirlwind (from the Book of Job). To reach this state of non-duality, reason is mostly an impediment to unshackle yourself from. Yet the name of the game lies in integrating the unlimited potential of emptiness, with the form of manifestation, thus creating living dreams.
My question has less to do with pure consciousness events and more to do with mere altered states, encounters with entities, etc. Non-dualism is a pretty futile place to attempt analysis. I'm asking about the in-between states in which qualification and (much less importantly) quantification are still possible.
"Sanity is Madness put to good use. Waking life is a dream controlled." -George Santayana
reason is...
— Aug 28, 2009
Great posts, I love them all.
I'd like to expand and provide some of my own ideas as well...
I think reason is a symptom of the ego, which is constantly establishing its own agency through negation of the other. For instance, we use reason to differentiate ourselves from our friends, enemies, different life forms, and inanimate objects, rationalizing that because we CAN rationalize, we are "better". This is ironic on a great deal of levels, but I'll leave that discussion for another time.
The ego must understand the world, because it seeks to master the world it deems "lower" than its own consciousness, rather than taking the gnani's stance of oneness. The humility and open-minded state achieved in many "enlightenend" individuals seeks not to master, but to recognize the unity within all matter and life.
Therefore, the rational egoic mind is only a natural state in the evolution of consciousness, an bastard offspring of our animalistic Darwinian agency and determination to reproduce and continue the "self" and our newfound consciousness, not merely inherent in each of us, but mainly our collective, cultural consciousness. This egoic mind is a coping mechanism, a mental firewall if you will, against the incredible beauty our consciousness allows us to perceive. Put simply, the gift of god to adam, the fire of prometheus, the foundation of civilization and consciousness was a gift and a curse, for we are now forever destined to wonder, awestruck by the mysterium tremendum, the sheer incomprehensibility of GOD, matter, the universe, nature (whatever you will call it).
So now, the rational mind, blinded by the beauty of our surrounding world, but at the same time utterly helpless and confused in its wake, seeks to grasp some underlying meaning on some level it can understand, rather than immersing itself in the chaos and giving into the unity of all.
Back to the main question, then,
reason is like a language. For your own experience, I see no reason for reason (har). You know what happened, and you only wish to classify it out of habit. Reason is a language for communication of the incommunicatable. If you are comfortable with your experience, and understand it fully, you have no need for reason. In fact, reason takes you farther from your goal if your goal is pure consciousness and awareness.
Aristotle said, "the only thing i know is that I know nothing." Here, one of the originators of modern logic and reason himself, the philosopher western civilization is based on, agrees that despite all his reason and logic, he knows nothing.
This shows us two things.
One - reason if mainly for communication of the inexplicable, as well as categorization and mastry of the unmasterable.
Two - The "Reason King" himseslf realizes the uselessness of reason.
He was a genius after all, because for all his claims and assertions which many find so wise and helpful, he realizes that these pontifications are all just mental rationalizations, and in the end, they too are useless.
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