Zeitgeist Day 2010

Venus project is spooky. No ideas are spoken that entail us living in harmony with eachother, just a bunch of machines doing shit for us. how boring is that? thats retarded, u guys are unevolved and want to suppress people for believing in religions. Religion is not the cause of all the bad stuff in the world. Didn't the movie say 9/11 was an inside job? Doesn't that mean that religion was not the cause of that terrorism. Religions have been endlessly coerced by people who want to use science as the next mainstream religion. But science has been proven to support money over truth so wipe those stars out of your eyes. Science is a fun thing, I like to explore possibilities and experiment. But it's not more imminent than my spirit. I won't be letting you guys allow machines to build my house or buildings for me, I like human made things. think they look much better than mass produced buildings that would look all the same. No culture there. I'd prefer the mcdonalds culture over that lack of culture. So, no culture. a cult founded on worshipping government/industry influenced scienctific "facts", what else can we pile on. Probably a lot of genetic modification would be hitting the streets too. Say bye bye to cures for cancer once that happens.

All I'm saying is there's a perfectly good 9/11 film out there, Loose Change. this movie took that and added their slants o religion...and then once they got you feeling like they are cool people and down with truth. They throw this humanistic bs at you and hook you in. It's called bait, and it looks tasty, and you are hungry. Don't bite yo, don't bite.

Movements don't save the world, people do. Individuals with faith in each other do. Groups always wind up suppressing others they deem enemy of the group. Come on wake up and relax. If we just help each other out and do our part to get involved in things that can do something right, then we can step back from blaming this or blaming that. There is no need to slay the wicked, just leave them to face death, and they will perish.

We can't set our sites on something to get bent on, like a project of some kind. We have to plant the seeds of our wisdom and contentment, to see what takes root. A plan is always going to wind up suppressing the earth, and suppressing it's inhabitants. I'm all for world peace, and living in equilibrium with nature, and many ideas of the venus project, but it's when we take action as individuals that will free ourselves, and free those around us from their chains. that's a big first step. but more importantly, people need to know about the real truth. That there are cures for cancer

(watch "dying to have known" by steve kroschel on google video)

that governments mess with religions and use them as scapegoats to forward their agendas. they want people to not believe in anything so that one day they can be the only thing to believe in. Isn't this what Alex Jones told us so many years ago when he mentioned the globalists agendas'???? I know you know what I'm talking about, come on who's with me?

The enemy is misinformation about the stuff that matters. What matters is people. and we are made discontent so that we will hate eachother on the highway, or try and make a few bucks off of someones naivety, or whatever you do personally. This step is going to be us choosing whether we want freedom and contentment or a world government with it's state, subconsciously mandated, religion known as science. All they want is something for you to give your spirit(your faith(your trust)) to, then you will be open to do it with other things. the point of science is to have fun and drop things off leaning towers to see what the nature is. but science isn't used for that anymore! its all serious and boring now giving way to an inhumane world of machines. What's going on is a perversion of the foundation of science.

"Life's a garden, dig it"

I'm not trying to beat you out here in a fight, just would like to hash this out publicly:

haha funny you should mention it, I work with natural building dude. I know you zeitgeist people think you know it all so much that you thought you knew me before you even knew me. I build with natural building and you were so sure I was some internet asshole, see who's the but hole?. I currently own a yurt too that I built out of scraps from an old deck that my neighbor was getting rid of. Reclaimed frame and use raw wool from a shepherd in western Massachusetts, for insulation, along with an old tent for waterproofing. All wrapped in burlap from the local agway. 150 bucks for my very own home. I am the change I wish to see in the world. so don't tell me how to change this shit with the zeitgeist/venus project. I grow my own food, i develop permaculture techniques that anyone can do... along with, alternative energy and fuel production. I don't give my personal power away to ideologies like zeitgeist or venus projects. I use my power to affect change and create thought provoking memes. I don't want your system in this world. I like to do things myself and so do a lot of other people.

My suggestion to you is become jewish if you don't believe in Jesus and for you to realize 9/11 has nothing to do with the historiography of religions. 9/11 has to do with a power elite who killed many of our fellow Americans on that day. I'd say getting some justice for that is a little bigger of a fish to fry than the truth behind religious allegories.

Religion is not why the world is messed up, bottom line. It has nothing to do with 9/11 either, bottom line.

so why are they grouped together? religion is a personal issue, not something a group takes up a crusade behind. Half your movie talks about religion so don't tell me Zeitgeist isn't about trying to purposely undermine religion. I went to a church dinner a few weeks back or less, and people are cool there, I don't mind muslims either. I have a muslim friend and some of my favorite people are Muslim gas station owners. I also know there are many Muslims being persecuted in Palestine by a people who are supposedly against persecution of religion.

See, if you read that last sentence, you'll see that all that is wrong here on this planet is people's perspectives are so A or B, dichotemy, you gotta open up the window and look outside the box, it's a really nice day out man.

like I said this is a hot subject so this isn't an argument here, I'm not fighting but the magnitude of what we're discussing is mind bendingly big so yeah, tempers flair.

i would like to point out that you are contradicting yourself with the statement '' all that is wrong here is peoples perspectives are so A and B, dichotomy, you gotta open up the window and look outside the box, it's a really nice day out man."

if you truly believed this you would be happy that other people such as those involved in the venus project are implimenting something positive ecological blueprint to help change the way we live', details of whether or how it should be done aside, none of us have the right answer!!! it is very arrogant to assume that any one individual does, but at least people are doing things to make steps to move out of world corruption. As an ecologist I support many community projects including this one that campaigns for sustainability for the planet and humanty as a whole and I give kudos to any individual who is living sustainabilty in action, i do not have ideas that this should be done any one way, as we are all learning to live in balance with the earth, i support all ways to change that moves away from all short term agendas for greed and power to long term sustainable choice and autonomy for the individual and community as a whole.

If one is not part of a religious group does it mean they ought to be treated with hate and criticism? Being of christ consciousness, would you not be a bit more unconditionally loving to others who are attempting to change the world and move away from greed and corruption.

as one who goes to church, i assume you have a deep understanding of Christ consciousness, you will also understand that Christ was a heart centred being, non-judgemental, whereas you seem busy creating dichotomy through judgements, many false assumptions only contradicting yourself and without much research.

You are defensively stating how you are living the correct way and others are not with the assumption that individuals of the Zeitgeist movement have given their individual power away when the whole movement is actually about self empowerment, sustainability is about self empowerment and empowerment for the community as a whole.

There is a lot more malevolent stuff going on out there than the this movement which you could be focusing on if that what you feel the need to do.

One could also speculate that being part of any religion is giving up ones personal will to something outside of oneself, which could be seen as also giving ones sovereign power away? The current capitalistic system already has enslaved many in very complex ways the programming is deep.

Change is created with momentum through building community, as individuals make a choice to change things, they then work together to create a movement to put that change into action. You are part of a movement in your community church, even if you see yourself as an individual containing your own' power', you also contribute that self to your community to create something more. There is no different to this movement, there is no dichotomy between the two, It is only ego that likes to create separation of i from them, we are all one, powerful individually and together, it is the oligarchic system that you ought to be aware of that is busy working to try and stop us realising this, not the Zeitgeist movement.

You seem intent on labelling the Zeitgeist movement as anti-religious when all it is doing is acknowledging objectively that the political world uses religion to manipulate and control,. There are some deeply spiritually aware people in this movement from all cultural and religious backgrounds as well as non-religious backgrounds, and it is not some cult or sect that you seem to be lumping everyone into.

Just because people support this movement, it does not mean they are not out there living sustainability, themselves taking action individually, just as you like to see you are.

If people here choose to support some movement that is a positive non-violent way to change corruption in the current system to sustainability, where else have you seen such a solution being given and who are you to slander it?

The Zeitgeist movement and the Venus project do not condemn religion or people who are religious, but it observes objectively that religion is a POLITICAL tool used through millennia to create divide in humanity, it has been manipulated, groomed, changed and exaggerated by the oligarchy to create extremes and illusions of separation confusing and fragment people so they completely forget that we are all united with the divine source and instead they argue over show god is the greatest and most real god.

So be glad, joyous and happy, practice non-judgement, stick your head out the window take a deep breath, smiling to yourself that positive change is ahead. PEACE!

Great examples of this throughout history can be found in William Bramblys book The Gods of Eden http://www.ukrytesprawy.org/inne/William_Bramley_-_The_Gods_of_Eden.pdf

Unfolding an ever evolving humanity

http://www.panaceauniversity.org/courses.htm

Rather than debating details the main focus ought to be is we need to change the way we are living now and impliment that change, thats all that matters.

Project Camelot interview Brian O'Leary an ex-astronaut and physics expert, who talks about many of the issues brought up in the above discussions,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3cBOq5-nZw

unfolding an ever evolving humanity

A breather!

after being such a "argumentator" i mustmake it clear i am not against the Zeigeist Movement. Peter Joseph is brilliant, the Zeitgeist Movement is a very powerful movement that is opening peoples eyes to very important truths. The Venus Project, as a viable solution to our challenges, is what i find to be dangerously illogic. From what i gather Fresco is the zealot with his agenda, the Zeitgeist Movement either co-opted to draw attention or just a fortunate situation that Peter Joseph would agree with and stand behind Fresco's model techno-republic.
and again, Jacque Fresco is also a brilliant and well intended man, with along history of exemplified concern for mankind, i don't think either of their followers are necessarily 'wrong' or ignorant, i'm just concerned that the momentum of this great movement is ultimately directed in a course that cannot be realized of itself. there are elements and insights that need attention and should be spoken but the movement as a complete solution, as well as many of the ethics of mechanization here expressed, i feel, should be abandoned. these ideas could be tempered in counsel and as a fractional influence of a greater organization of visionaries, who may help in actualizing a better way of being.
the technological obsession is a human characteristic. it seems a form of escapism to the reality of the cycles of existence. the future is unknown, the cycles of the past are consistent and precise, i feel that to assume so much and to vest faith in a system of technology to overcome what has been simply the way of things for eternity is bad thinking.
just some things to consider, i'm not trying to be an adversary for the sake of it, nor do i have an agenda of my own to push, i'm simply expressing myself based on what i do know of things.

namaste.

No, blatant disregard for "facts" is what should be ignored.

Show me "ONE" fact that was offered in the above rhetoric "against" the Zeitgeist Movement.

Agree with Kitaki Two Crows, anyone new reading this thread will simply be put off by the name calling racist remarks and ego attacks flying around as I said in my previous post, this really is a reflection of how so much in the human psychy needs healing, how can we have healthy debate if people act like this. The Earth is dying and people can only think about their own egos and public image with name callling and attacks on one another rather than focusing on the positive solutions.
unfolding an ever evolving humanity.

Like i said before, we do not have time for ego, emotive based arguments, Gaia is unwell, and everyone seems more interested in defending themselves rather than as Kitaki says "learning from one another."

Name calling and attacks religious or otherwise is a prime example of where the real pollution is coming from, it is in peoples minds and making hearts heavy, anger, bitterness, greed and that is why it has been projected outward onto mother earth. Perhaps people who are outwardly in denial that we need to change the way we communicate with the earth and one another because it means taking responsability of ourselves and not behaving worse than children!

The main focus ought to be love, unconditional love, learning, open heart, respect especially here of all places!!!

We need to change the way we are living now and impliment that change, thats all that matters, not who is right or who is wrong.

yes we certainly needs some peace here thank you! =)

unfolding an ever evolving humanity

oh yeah I love how me proving you all wrong, means that I am being negative,

Every time one of you says something I can pick you apart. and if I wasn't responding to the higher up posts it's because I dont pay attention when people gang up on me. thats called mob mentality and gets no where.

And about calling me a racist for no reason, hmmmmmm

"Life's a garden, dig it"

well spoken.
i agree with much of the above. i meant in no way to steer people from learning from this umm... touchy now, Movement. These are brilliant people with brilliant ideas. i do find this as an ideology lacking and creed-ish, but that is my opinion at this time as i know now. I think we should not put forth so much energy in one direction not knowing if that direction is true. Fresco himself has said that "it's the public that sucks", it's the mindset of the people that lead to the ends we are witnessing. the energy may be wasted vested in technologies that may actually be obsolete in the brevity of change. it is each one of us, individually, that must truly choose. chatter on forums is simply chatter, internal dialogue of the collective. it is in our every action that is the point where our energy is best focused, that we are 'being the change', not so much talking about it. And... the Zeitgeist Movement is being change, is awaking people's consciousness. for this, i believe, it deserves reverence but... this is a movement asking of you to trust in it whole, undoing religious tradition in it's path. this is the movements own undoing. it causes divisiveness, as perfectly exemplified here. trust in what is true in you, in no abstract way. in these times, it's un-wise to trust in fallible men and systems, systems that are but remixes of the previous generation's remixes of the previous and so on, again exemplified by the material in the ZM's films in their campaign disembling religious dogma. These religions were all attempts to unify a people, however things may have worked out politically, there are lessons to be learned there. some of these ancient systems contain elements that we do not truly understand as a people whole. that is a fact. it's very true that the painting of the myths undergo endless change, it's also true that they are stories of the cycles of the micro and macrocosm, which we are very much subject to. we likely would have lived better lives if the ideas presented here were the way of things since long ago, but is it not obvious we are far too late and not, individually and collectively, sincere enough for this type of "upgrade"? self honesty is important here. the Deus ex Machina became a unfashionable way to end science fiction in the time when this movement started, this is where many of the movement's memes associated were born. does that not make it a bit ominous as a survival plan? it doesn't seem a sound, viable solution. So many of those trumpeting these ideas are not, in their daily actions and lives, truly implementing. it seems to there has become a practice of associating oneself in some way to an group or ideology that is forward thinking and seemingly evolved. it seems also that this is satisfying to those who are well set in this paradigm or benefiting from the transactions taking place in discussing these great plans for the future, none of which could truly actualize, being the workings of, ultimately, biased and unbalanced people, however brilliant. those that i'm writing here about know who they are, they struggle with this every day, hence the modern 'self-help' Industry. Friends, please be discerning. we all want a good future, in whatever we think of of as 'good', let's pay close attention, know and realize just what that means as the days unfold and the veil is lifted. trust within.

sorry to harp here but i did mean to add that i wish the Zeitgeist Movement was just an education campaign, up until the kooky ending, i was loving these ideas and the presentation. This could have so much more value without the divisive elements.

my banter ceases.

Some points of contention that I'm not really

1. Economic system: The Venus project is spot on with problems in the financial system, but offers no deeper understanding or real open source, bottom up solutions for economic coordination. As far as I can understand it, the venus project's solution is that values are determined 'objectively' and all resources are distributed by a central database... not a good solution in my mind. In fact anything with the word 'central' attached gets a big no in my book. Of course I might not be understanding this properly.
2. Hating on Religions: So what's the gameplan? To get the world to simultaneously wake up and support the Venus Project (through the power of documentary films) and simultaneously forget their religions? What dude? So all those muslims and christians are just going to give it up and join the party? No, what's really happening is that this is the fastest way to hamstring any global movement for sustainability, is to make it religiously charged and give people the idea that their religion is causing all the world's problems.
3. Technology: I'm all for it and in some ways that the Venus Project might gel with. I'm for everything open source designed, decentralized, automated, in harmony with nature. A union of mostly low-tech but high intelligence with a seasoning of some very limited but very advanced information, energy and transportation technology.

From the Zeitgeist Website:

The proposals he presented, and those of Plato's Republic, the writings of Karl Marx, H. G. Wells in his book The Shape of Things to Come, and many others all represent attempts to find workable solutions to the many problems that earlier civilizations were unable to resolve. There is little doubt that at the time of Bellamy’s books the social conditions were abominable, which made the Utopian ideal extremely appealing. What appears to be lacking in most of these concepts, however, has been an overall plan and the necessary methods for a transitional system to enable the idea to become a reality. Most of the early visions of a better world did not allow for changes in either technology or human values, tending to arrest innovative efforts. Additionally, all have lacked a comprehensive set of blueprints, models, and a methodology for implementation. Finally, they lacked competent individuals to bring about such a transition.

It's things like this that make the Venus Project 'spooky'. Especially to someone educated about the New World Order, and that doesn't just mean listening to Alex Jones. Ever read Plato's republic? Have you watched "Things to Come?" These are creepy books. Plato believed the perfect state would be ruled over by an elite set of 'philosopher kings' (later who are mimicked by HG Wells in Things to Come) who are authorized to lie to the general public to achieve their goals.

Essentially, assuming human nature is already good, and cooperation is good, we don't need any global 'plan'. We don't need any coordinators. We don't need any more 'movements'. We don't need to agree with one another or all share the same religion. We just need to unplug, reclaim our power however way we see it, whether it comes from god or it comes from ourself, and start cooperating. We need open source tools. We need to preserve our commons, expand it, and preserve our freedoms as they erode. We need to stop focusing on divisions and focus on the open.

So to the extent that the Venus Project is for all that good stuff... I'm for the Venus Project too. I resonate with it in a lot of important ways and wish for it's success.

Cheers,

Meade