Thought "Leaders" or Thought Police?

I think you're right, and I am glad someone addressed this issue because I have been thinking about it.

However I partly think they're right too, because Monte and several others who are always the critic kind of ruin the spirit of what is going on here. It has really been pissing me off and annoying me to see the constant naysayers and "Evolver should be this, RS should be that, I like one but not the other." You know who gives a shit about your pissing and moaning? Other pissers and moaners. Life's too short to pick everything apart instead of seeing the benefits and focusing on those.

I've been pretty surprised at the level of entitlement and negativity that I see here sometimes. We should all be grateful that they put up this forum so we can meet these amazing people and learn from each other. They have the right on this site to do whatever they want to and they'll take your suggestions if they're feasible and fit in with their priorities, if they don't, they won't.

I also think that Monte (and several others on here) have been quite disrespectful and spoken of the team here in ways that I absolutely would not someone to speak to me. I mean, really! If you don't like it, then stop fucking reading already. Read something you DO like, and quit stirring up negativity and complaining, it bores me.

I'm not opposed to the censorship of those who aren't mature enough to be kind in their disagreements, that's just my personal opinion on it. It's kind of nice to know that they're not going to let someone disrespect them or disrespect me.

That being said, I think Monte had a valid point (though he chose to express in it an inappropriate fashion, which he later apologized for but should have revised). I trust that the leaders of this movement thought about his concerns and made the best decision for their safety. I hope we don't see it happen again.

“An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come.”-Victor Hugo

Am I adhering to a cult-ish idol worship because I don't like seeing others be disrespected? That's ridiculous. Negativity IS a part of life and it has its place in every forum, but I think you're wrong. Argument has been played out in every way imaginable, it's almost cliche. Respectful disagreement is not polyanna, it is the way of the wise. It is the very essence of evolution.

And you are right that Monte made some most excellent contributions to this site and seemed to be an excellent individual. But you call someone a narcissistic clown, they might be a little resentful about how that all plays out. I might be. Who knows? I can't speak for them and I certainly can't speak for Monte, for whom I wish the best.

“An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come.”-Victor Hugo

Pinchbecks a goon. Cool website though! Wait... Seriously though thats what you get. The people youre talking about on this evolver site are sitting, ruminating day in and day out. Just imagine how paranoid you would be if you were the one or one of the ones who were starting the revolution. Its a big job really. Theyre booked solid. To the teeth!
That guys cracked.

you rock. I think that you just levelled the playing field. On the one hand, I say things like daniel pinchbeck is a goon. On the other hand, I'm a goon. Female warrior is one of those... and I told chris hopkins to fuck himself with giving him a reason. What to do, what to do... Maybe if the strong ones stick together things will work out..?

There are a lot more comments today. People still crying out over what is right or wrong. I used to get a little mad when people were doing stuff like this because I always thought it was unproductive and kind of ridiculous. Now I don't care too much. I've realized that any group, and network, any "movement", will always have complainers. Ninety five percent of it could be awesome, but there will always be people waiting around to point their fingers when some of that other five percent leaks through. No matter what evolver does, they could respond to every one of these posts by doing exactly what it is that all these opinions are telling them they should do and then there would still be people waiting around to point fingers and shake fists when something else happens that doesn't sit well with their perspective. None of this finger pointing or fist shaking bothers me anymore, I've accepted it as part of who people are. The one thing that still does bother me a little is that most of this finger pointing comes from people that are ignoring the whole scope of evolver. I hate to break it to you guys but evolver is much more than a blogging site, and this is a very good thing. You guys are missing out on a whole bunch of other things that you could shake your fist at the little parts of it that are wrong. You could complain about spore topics not being the right ones, or that the Ayahuasca Monologues are a waste of time. That releasing an up and coming authors book this month is a bad idea, there are much better authors they could have chosen. I can't really say anything about missing the call to complain about the retreats they plan, you guys have done plenty of that. What about the podcast I've been doing, care to tell me how much it sucks? Or that I need better guests and topics. Or Daniel's book coming out later this year, he probably should have written something else in your guys opinion's huh? Or what about the evolver festival in Atlanta this year that had like 300 people show up, that could have probably been done better also. The Time Bank that the Evolver Long Beach spore launched, that probably wasn't done perfect either. The community gardens other spores have done, they should have planted different food. The regional coordinators down in New Orleans are spending a bunch of time trying to protest BP and spread information about the adverse affects of off shore oil drilling, they could probably find a better way of spending their time eh? What about the free psychedelics conference that they threw up in Vancouver, where they skyped in like 15 different experts on the topic, they probably could have picked better guests huh? You see my point here? You guys are missing out on this whole other part of evolver that you could be criticizing. Blogging is just where we as the community get to post things we believe in and then have philosophical debates about them, which is just a small piece of all the things evolver is trying to do. We could all try to research everything that evolver is doing, it would give you guys so much more to criticize. I'm looking forward to the criticism I get for this comment.

-Invisible Agent

"No one really knows exactly what happens when we think, therefor we can never really ever know anything." -Michael Larson

www.BarbelithLives.com

I don't much care about the politics of any of this. But that RS would offer a retreat that explicitly offers a drug experience, and it turns out that that drug is illegal in the host country... that's pretty irresponsible and offensive. Isn't the appeal of this sort of retreat that you can engage in the experience safely without the threat of legal repercussions? I do hope everyone participating is aware of the situation. It would never have occurred to me that the retreat they were offering has an ambiguous legal status. Poor planning in my opinion, and very misleading.

Anyone here who is concerned about censorship should look into opening another Blog and posting there simultaneously. You can also post at many other websites at the same time. Nobody has the power to silence you except the federal government if you are a terrorist.

Any information that you put on this website can be cross-posted and you should gather emails of people on here you want to stay in contact with. You are not a 'non-person' if you are banned from Evolver. That's what happens when the government pulls up a van, takes you to an undisclosed location and rapes and tortures you. Moral of the story, don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Anyone here who is concerned that the admins are making wrong decisions and not paying enough attention to Evolver, you are probably right but you would serve yourself better by putting your energy towards improving the website by offering up professional, well written, humorous and intelligent blogs (after all, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink) Remember, even if you are successful in your blogging you will still have to cooperate with the other people here including the admins. Just like the people in a family, village or a work situation change their behavior and bite their tongue because they have to live and work with one another at the end of the day. It's not a perfect situation but it works.

For the time being, an account here is free and not an entitlement to anyone, any more than a stranger is entitled to insult or endanger you in your own home. So sorry, no, I don't really get ruffled if I or someone else gets banned (not that I've ever been banned from anywhere). It's the internet... it happens. Heads roll from time to time. Monte was a really cool guy but also something of a shit disturber. He probably did what he felt he had to do, the admins did what they had to do, both had different perspectives, end of story. Everyone can still be friends.

So there is an issue with this retreat? That kind of thing is not my cup of tea. But that's just me, but due to the fact that I'm not omniscient I will refrain from criticising. I'm sure that the admins will come out in time with their side of the story.

Oh hey now, I have a pretty elegant solution to this problem... make me the moderator. Problem solved. First order of business, ban Grant420 for flamebaiting. That way people can hate/love the mods instead.

Even better... hire a modbot. But the budget is probably too low for that.

-Cheers

It doesn't seem to me that censorship is the main issue here. Shouldn't the topic that was censored be of more interest, since it underlies the reason FOR the censorship?

I've known the Evolver crew for a long time, and they're such good people. Every decision made carries the intention of health and good will. But at the same time, I'd never want to be banned for offering criticism, especially from a community based on evolution and change. I haven't read the post, so I don't know.

I feel like a site like Reddit handles this well with "upvotes" and "downvotes." That way, if enough people dislike a comment, it becomes clear that it was inappropriate to the conversation. Now, that website has *very* specific tastes, but if skimming through comments, I see a comment with +35, my mind will instinctively be more open to it than, say, -10. It becomes a sort of Darwinian internet initiative (fitting the "evolver" motif). The healthiest ideas are rewarded, and the inappropriate ones are forgotten.

I've been around transformative work for almost a decade, and it always comes equipped with thrashing, emotional egos (on both sides of the table) that fight to hold on to attachments of ideas and "an image" Unfortunately, I haven't seen the post, so all I have to respond to are the comments here.

Evolver might be more effective if it adapted a slimmer motif, less cluttered with sleek layouts and more about the events, comments, and news posts. What do you guys think? I can certainly do my best to pass along any ideas.

"You have tasted death now," said the Old Man. "Is it good?"

"It is good," Mossy replied. "It is better than life."

"No... only more life."

I have to admit, this firestorm is my fault. It was a mistake to take Monte's Evolver.net blog post down and to block his account. Honestly, he set me off by posting, as part of his blog on Evolver.net, a private email that I sent to him which was not meant for public circulation. On top of that, he accused me and our team of plotting a nefarious effort to lure unsuspecting innocents into a dangerous and illegal activity, so, it was implied, we could fatten our wallets. It's probably hard for many people to imagine just how much effort goes into Evolver, and how many little details we are dealing with, but on some days so many things are going on at once that I'll make a snap judgment I later regret. Of course, I shouldn't let myself get baited like that, and usually I don't. But in this case I was feeling particularly frustrated and made a bad call.

As for Monte's initial question, I've got calls and emails out to a number of people and I'm making sure that we can give a definite answer. More to come soon.