Are political solutions a dead letter? Please share your thoughts.
posted by ugotstahwonder | January 27, 2011
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IcerocketLooking for help in assessing my own conviction, of sorts, that political solutions are a
dead letter after commenting on “Raindrop Reflections.” Please let me know your
thoughts. Here are mine: After reading an email with one of those pre-fabricated
letters for sending to some official or another, I wondered: Is it just my own laziness
that leads me to conclude that its not really important enough to engage in those sorts of
activities? As I commented on one friend's facebook post beseeching us all to tell the
EPA to ban pesticides that are potentially and likely killing the bees, "isn't it insane
that 'we' have to tell the EPA to do this?" It is hard to imagine that ‘we’ can impact
that sort of apparent corruption of purpose with these emailed form letters. I don't
want to give up out of laziness or fatigue, but I want my efforts to go somewhere
clearly effective. I think it might be good to consider this as a collective: are political
solutions a dead letter or do we all need to stop thinking that way and really get
involved with the politics? Thoughts and, even better, examples, please.
Also, does anyone else have a problem with this site cutting off the right margin?
Comments
Voter turn out means revolution
— Jan 27, 2011
The powers that be fear voter turn out, they would prefer the 30 to 40% turn out, it mean that their favored people, the one the money was spent on ads and TV time will get in and others will be out. It is vital to get out and vote ALL the time, not just for the presidential ones, even the local ones. High voter turn out always upsets the system. Abraham Lincoln had the highest voter turn out in US history, 81%, and the civil war and abolition of slavery would follow soon.
Obama is president because of voter turn out (for better or worse is another discussion) and the new GOP congress is because of lack of turn out.
Letters to editors, governments, and so forth may or may not have an impact - it's hard to know - but it should make you feel good that you care enough to try vs. hang your head and say why bother. It's impossible to feel good about not even trying.
6 Tektite Serpent
----------------------------
"That which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly" - Thomas Paine
"We never reflect how pleasant it is to ask for nothing" - Seneca
trying and feeling good
— Jan 27, 2011
I've got nothing against feeling good, but fiddling around with electronics and form letters doesn't do it for me, particularly when it seems like much of what we are/might be compelled to state should be obvious. The question is rather, with limited time, how should we expect to and work to effect change? Are political solutions still a good bet?
Never take your eye off of
— Jan 27, 2011
Never take your eye off of politics, politics always exists, it decides who get's what. The main thing is to get new ideas out in the open, put into the debate.
6 Tektite Serpent
----------------------------
"That which we obtain too easily, we esteem too lightly" - Thomas Paine
"We never reflect how pleasant it is to ask for nothing" - Seneca
Politics has always been a
— Jan 28, 2011
Politics has always been a joke. People want to believe that politician are there for them. They are not. What is a President? Really what is the job of President? What is this title? What does it mean? People just assume they know but they do not. People do not know what he is presiding over. Do I have to say it? It's bankruptcy and since everyone is bonded to the system the currency they're banking is you.
Why do you need to be represented? You, for whatever reason cannot represent yourself. Why? Competence or the lack thereof.
http://www.evolver.net/user/absalom/blog/silent_weapons_quiet_wars_ii
The people hire the politicians so that the people can:
- obtain security without managing it.
- obtain action without thinking about it.
- inflict theft, injury, and death upon others without having to contemplate either life or death.
- avoid responsibility for their own intentions.
- obtain the benefits of reality and science without exerting themselves in the discipline of facing or learning either of these things.
They give the politicians the power to create and manage a war machine to:
- provide for the survival of the nation/womb.
- prevent encroachment of anything upon the nation/womb.
- destroy the enemy who threatens the nation/womb.
- destroy those citizens of their own country who do not conform for the sake of stability of the nation/womb.
The fear of failure is manifested in irresponsibility, and especially in delegating those personal responsibilities to others where success is uncertain or carries possible or created liabilities (law) which the person is not prepared to accept. They want authority (root word - "author"), but they will not accept responsibility or liability. So they hire politicians to face reality for them.
The "presidential" level of commander-in-chief is shared by the international bankers. The people know that they have created this farce and financed it with their own taxes (consent), but they would rather knuckle under than be the hypocrite.
Then to vote for a commander-in-chief of the military? And claim to be about peace? How can you vote for the commander-in-chief of a military and be at peace? You cannot and to do so is a universal declaration of war.
If you think you can vote for freedom... just wait and see what happens. You already know where it's going. You've seen it coming your whole life. With politicians promising the world and delivering nothing. So who is the bigger liar? the public? or the "godfather"?
But watch, just like in the film The Network, "You think we're real, turn off your television!" But no, people keep watching like people keep voting. And now with technology expanding and a TV in every home. Whatever the PTB want you to think is what you will think.
How much more in your face does this thing have to get? Well lets see how in your face they're getting?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mYvb6JMOYU
Priority messages are going out everyday. The question is are you listening?
"Seek not abroad, turn back into thyself, for in the inner man dwells the truth..."
wow, absalom
— Jan 28, 2011
Thanks for the thoughts. A potent dose of reality as I was really only thinking about the seemingly piddling stuff, but maybe that's the problem. Political bodies are too grandiose and self absorbed to care about thing like bees dying. Maybe that's where I'm inclined to believe that grass roots efforts are those more effectively made if they can directly impact upon the issue(s).
But, I have to agree with both of you thus far that you can't ignore the system either. I do get freaked out that Monsanto is authoring bills that might allow for the outlaw of backyard gardens.
I guess the answer to my question is both efforts (political and grass roots) should be undertaken. It just might not be possible, though, to be all things at all times and it can be much more powerful to pick your point and pursue it, rather than allowing your energy to be difused by tring to do it all.
I think we are at the point where urgency demands powerful action. That is really what prompted the question. Also, I do see a revolutionary meme playing out and am wondering -- will the US be immune?
I think my right margin issues must be from older computers/browsers. The right margin cuts off well into the text. I can cut and paste and see the whole in Word but not on the site itself. It works fine, however, on my newer cell phone. Thanks for asking and answering. I do think this is an important subject for us all to consider now.
"urgency demands powerful
— Jan 28, 2011
"urgency demands powerful action" Only the right knowledge combined with the right action is power.
It's not the US you should be concerned about. It's already going down in flames but people are too conditioned to think otherwise so they don't see it. They're too stuck in front of the boobtube to read these federal acquisition documents or requests for information concerning the future "plans" and contingencies of DHS and FEMA. The don't read their history, they just accept what they've been told all these years.
A man receives two educations in his lifetime. One which is given to him and the other he gives himself. Well if all he ever gives himself is what they gave him to begin with, what does he got besides Stockholm syndrome?
The citizens of the US and the US itself are as different as night and day or life and death. So when we talk about immunity, what are we talking about? All the souls that have stepped in as surety for their citizen, they aren't immune. The State; the fictitious creation of man, only exists in our imaginations so of course it's immune from everything but our imaginations.
"You cannot solve your problems and the same level of thinking you were in when you created them." -Einstein
So if you notice a problem or feel uncomfortable in your condition, what do you do to alter your circumstance other than learn to alter your circumstance. Many people just want to be saved. They're in foreclosure and trying to save their homes... okay seems reasonable on the surface. But lets look deeper.
Is it their home? No, that's why they got a mortgage. Is the money they used to buy in to this home their money? Well first and foremost, it's not money and second, it's not "ours". Can you use something that isn't yours to buy something? We use a medium of exchange called Federal Reserve Notes, which are representations of debt, which are mere promises to pay, someday. But someday never comes like yesterday and tomorrow. And if you're paying attention, there is no intention of paying someday. So what are we all doing here?
People ask me all the time if I can help them save their homes because I study law. "I got myself into trouble"; "help me". That's the motivation... and it's greedy. I know it's hard to see and a tough pill to swallow for most people. But hey, if you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you make them really think they'll hate you.
So now the system is crashing, it's got a bug or a virus and the software has been corrupted, but the operators are still powering up and eventually the thing will seize up and they'll have to reboot. The question my own mentor asks is, reboot to what? That's the question.
And don't think the iddy-biddy citizen will have any say in the matter. They never paid their debt and that debt ain't going away on it's own.
If you can get to somewhere where you can work the land great. Not get upside down in debt great. But if hyperinflation hits it won't be great. Keep in mind that during the Great Depression most homes were owned and paid for and they still had a depression. Here, people don't own anything. In fact they owe, they owe their future labor if they wanna sit around and call themselves Americans.
As I see it. Now is the time to not be tied to the dirt and by that don't mean don't work the dirt, I mean don't be tied down to it. Everybody has to eat and it's that's lot more important than trying to save a home that isn't yours. It's time to lighten the load and be mobile. Why? the derivatives market hasn't crashed yet and when it goes you really can't say where will be safe and when the economics tsunami hits it's gonna wipe out everybody who fails to adapt to current times.
You can bet all the powers that be are mobile. I believe the Bush's built a compound in Paraguay so when the fit hits the shan here, you can bet they won't be anywhere near here.
Liberal, conservative, democrat, republican means nothing to me, but for those that it does, well that's just the matrix they're stuck in and you can't win a rigged game. No amount of rabble-rousing is ever going to change that because it comes back down to motivation. "I got myself into trouble, help me", "My representatives are corrupt, help me" " I don't know what to do, help me" Help me me me me" Sorry but I'm not impressed and I don't think the universe is impressed either.
A prudent man sees danger and seek refuge... or he builds one. Look at these people down in Louisiana. Still shrimping and eating gumbo after the food supply has been tainted. What are they still doing down there? They're asking for everything they're getting. People just see what they want to see. They need to be victims or their whole world view collapses. Well that's not very impressive either. It's stuck in the box thinking. "I'm only "this" and the markets not good right now..." Well I guess you better get out of the box and become something else. Because to keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? You know this one, you heard this punch line a million times. It's insanity.
So you can't solve your problems and the same level of thinking you were in when you created them. Okay time to think different. Time to self-educate and become something else. It's time to grow and be mobile. It's time to create and build a refuge; build a sanctuary , or a stronghold, or both. But to sit around and wait is an abdication of personal responsibility. So the "wait and see" attitude, that's got to go as well.
"Seek not abroad, turn back into thyself, for in the inner man dwells the truth..."
Voting doesnt do anything
— Jan 28, 2011
That is trying to win the game playing by their rules. The game is rigged and if you try too hard you may end up like Hunter. The majority of people will not start making things better by voting on it until the education system and the media are completely changed. And the education system cant be changed without voting on it....starting to see a prob? The media wont change because they are owned....... I don't the the majority can be relied on for anything. The good news is that if anything good starts to happen they wont try to stop it either. The richest 2% in the country have enormous influence......The smartest and most caring 5-10% should be able to take over and do whats right......i don't think we need the majority
interesting comments
— Jan 29, 2011
Absalom ~ I am a lawyer and I get those calls from people facing foreclosure as well. I have the same reaction you do about some of them. Some, I don't believe are guilty of being unreasonable or voraciously practicing 'the secret', perhaps.They were doing the right and reasonable things, but got caught in the mess that is our times.
The others just don't want to face the reality that is shaping up against materialism. They cling to a view that most resembles the '80s under Reagan and they fiercely defend this clinging as if some absolute right were involved. I don't understand why everyone wants to own more and more property. It's so much more of a pain in the ass than renting a vacation spot. But, I do think owning a primary residence is still a good idea. Unfortuantely, however, all that crazed speculation really f'ed things up for those with this good and reasonable goal.
I do believe there is a plenty of blame to go around, however, and, those sitting secure on the piles of cash made in over-building and predatory lending should not be, nor should the entities that facilitated their brazen party be being bailed out by everyman/woman in this country. The fact that they are, nonetheless is a just another example of the obvious things that shouldn't be happening as they are happening in this "system".
To the last poster ~ Regarding the 2%, or the 1%, whatever it is, I wouldn't get my hopes up that they will ever step in on behalf of the masses. I've had a thought that perhaps they are only being fattened up for the greater ease involved in taking them out as the last people with any means to do anything when the time comes. I do see fascism rising in the US and it is likely to be as atrocious as ever as it plays itself out again. I find it worrisome that some of the people posting here think democracy is the problem. The problem, as I see it, is that people are being successfully manipulated out of properly employing their democracy.
If
— Jan 29, 2011
Democracy is a problem when it is not functioning like its idealy supposed to....democracy doesn't exist in a vacuum. If people are lied to.....democracy doesn't exist any more....if people are apathetic or stupid on a mass scale.....democracy doesn't exist any more.....its a good idea that functions well in a healthy society.....but that is not the reality of the situation....what is so hard to grasp about that..........Democracy doesn't function well in life or death situations where decisions have to be made quickly either.......Sometimes taking a vote is not intelligent....
hard to grasp?
— Jan 29, 2011
I agree with what you state; however, not the conclusion that the problem lies with democracy. I could agree that the problems stem from capitalism, but not democracy. As you put it, I think your frustration is, like mine, more with the lack of good internal processes within the average human being today, but there is no good way to discern who should have the right to rule and there never has been. Democracy is our best hedge against corruption, but there are obvious and many ways to infiltrate it with corruption nonetheless.
discernment
— Jan 29, 2011
I think that the more aware we become (enlightened if you will), the better our discernment will be. If we can't possibly eventually tell who is a good choice to lead then I think we might be in trouble......I guess what Im trying to say is that clear seeing, goodness, and truth should not have to compromise with or vote against blindness, greed,or bad intentions. I think that human growth and enlightenment, and being able to recognize people who have attained realization and letting them lead would be an even better hedge against corruption.
Democracy is a militarily
— Jan 29, 2011
Democracy is a militarily run government and it's giving your will to a man-god "Godfather" who is a god of war, and you don't have a say because you don't have a contract right. Democracy, Republic... meaningless. There's debtors and there's creditors. If you're not the creditor, you have no power. Creditors create, question is did you create your government? No. That's why you're a debtor in it and that's why you're susceptible to dis-ease and corruption. You have no immunity from the creditor. Only creditors have immunity from their debtors. To wake up everyday a debtor in a debtor nation, on a deep psychic level, it's perpetuating your own self abuse.
The public education system of a debtor nation can't teach you anything but how to be a debtor. Then to love the abuser that keeps you a debtor and to do so voluntarily? Is this not insane?
"Seek not abroad, turn back into thyself, for in the inner man dwells the truth..."
A new state of mind
— Jan 29, 2011
From what I read, all of this discussion comes down to a question; what can we do?
ugotstahwonder, you started by asking if anyone thinks the political process (the citizen-government relationship) is still an effective means of inducing change. The series of comments that followed are a perfect example of how this question is typically answered; a barrage of reasons why one thing or the other is wrong & why our social structures are degenerate and ineffective.
Of course, it completely necessary to spread the truth about every manipulation, every deception, and every oppression that exists in our world today; but that's not what you were asking. You want to know, what can we do?
I like absalom's Einstein quote. It's very pertinent to what you were asking in this post. Similarly, this is my input; To know what you can do, you have to know what you are doing.
I think that too many people are asking "what should we do? what can we do?" these are open-ended questions, exactly like the "Help me out of trouble" and "I don't know what to do" of absalom's callers.
Asking for an external solution will never yield results- because in asking for a solution, you are accepting that this whole system, this whole society, is an objective entity that exists in the real world. THIS IS NOT TRUE. Every notion of power, dominance, heirarchy, debt, right, and money is constructed & perpetuated in the minds of everyone who participates in their perpetuation. They all only exist in your mind; not just "the collective consciousness", or someone else's mind, but in YOUR mind.
So, to find a real answer to "what can we do", you should ask "what am I doing". What are you doing? What are you believing in? Is it real? Do you want to believe in it?
What is it that you do to prosper? Do you work for money? Have you ever had any other ideas about how to live life? Are you suppressing those ideas within yourself? Or are you acknowledging those ideas, and implementing them in your life?
Don't ask "whats wrong with the system"- the system exists because of what YOU are doing. Ask, "what am I doing", and maybe some effective solutions will present themselves.
not that simple
— Jan 29, 2011
You make it seem so easy........I don't agree with the statement "the system exists because of what you are doing" Even if one was living their life in the best way they could, the system would still be in power right now......we were all more or less born into this....The monster has been growing and locking people in for a long time......and its not "just in your mind" its all around us in numerous physical incarnations........(factories, police, court houses) And it is not a bad thing to wonder what can we do........I agree that personal growth is the best thing that we can do now, but we also have to make some collective action eventually......What is that action going to be? hard to say ...its like were fighting the nothing from the never ending story
So what is it?
— Jan 29, 2011
What is "The monster"? The "system"?
What is this thing most of us are born into?
You mentioned a few physical incarnations; Factories and Courthouses are buildings, which at best may offer the foundation of new development (rehabbing abandoned warehouses into greenhouses for example) and at worst, will crumble and fall.
You also mentioned the police- an institution of people, your fellow human beings. In fact, institutions of people are what I assume you were really referring to when you mentioned courthouses and factories.
When I say that this system exists only because we are participating in it, I find that the same truth applies to all these institutions of oppression which have been "locking people in for a long time"- if it were not for these people locked into the system, participating, keeping it alive, where would it be?
If there were no human beings who chose to be police officers, or politicians, or judges, where would these institutions be? There would not be a single building or "Physical Incarnation" to which you could point, and say "look, there is the police" because they would no longer exist.
Social institutions require active participation. Social institutions only exist in the perceptions of those participating in them.
What I'm saying is not in disagreement with you at all; in fact, I agree with you completely. We do need some collective action; and, we have it! There is a TON of collective action going on right now; collective action to maintain the status quo. The existence of social structure is collective action- the existence of oppression is the product of collective action.
We need to look at our collective action, honestly and without reservation; we need to ask "What is this thing I am doing?" about EVERYTHING; when you pay your bills, when you vote for an elected official, when you drive your car. What are you doing? How does it tie into collective action? How can you change?
What we need is a revised system. Something that everyone can participate in, the same way that people participate in "America" or "The Economy"- but something that will promote harmony & prosperity rather than deception and war.
you got it (daresay we all do)
— Jan 29, 2011
Yes, what can we do and, yes, it does feel like we are fighting the nothing from the never ending story. But, I, for one, have thought about what I am doing and I have un-plugged a lot from the party line rhetoric of what a "good life" is about or necessitates. In part, because it doesn't jive for me, so that even when "successful" at it, and perhaps most acutely then even, I don't feel it. It feels like a death and the people around me feel like vipers, distinctly not human. I realize that sounds dramatic, but simply stated I can't live for dying and I do feel we are collectively dying as things are now. So, certainly, what can we do is a question and I'm trying to eliminate what isn't worth doing as part of that answer.
We all do
— Jan 29, 2011
I think, maybe why it feels like we are fighting some phantom, some "nothing", is because we are expecting to find the problem "out there", out in the world, somewhere were we are not responsible for it.
The truth, I think, is that what we are fighting is within ourselves. Every single person- and what could we be fighting against?
You say that you feel like the people around you are "distinctly not human"- what a strange thing to think about humans! I think this is a little indicator of exactly what that "nothing" is, the "monster" we're fighting against; what could we possibly do, as a collective action to right the wrongs and do good in the world, if we are surrounded by vipers?
We will always have collective action- we are social animals, our world is built by collective action. The choice we have today is, should we allow our collective action to be controlled by the institutions which impose morals, economic structures, spiritual perspectives, and debt upon us? Or should we recognize that we are, every single one of us, the most powerfully creative beings that exist?
The world that we believe in, the world of humans, exists because we created it. It exists in our minds, and we are the ones who can mold it. We are the powerful ones- we only tell ourselves that we aren't.
I agree
— Jan 29, 2011
i agree with you....but it still seems as if you are over-simplifying our problems.......Should we allow ourselves to be controlled?.....no.....but its not like *poof* its all better........lots of people have to wake up.....we have to help them do that.....but they have to be ready for it too, cause you can't force awakening.......and as for us being super powerful.....i look at that as another paradox.....we are powerful creative beings, but at the same time we are vulnerable little sensitive creatures that are easily hurt and destroyed..
Spot on Albert.
— Jan 30, 2011
"No! No different! Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned." -Yoda
Because it's the only way to know what it is you are doing...
Another Yodaism that comes to mind.
"Ready are you? What know you of ready? For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi. My own council will I keep on who is to be trained. A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind. This one, a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away, to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh! Excitement. Heh! A Jedi craves not these things."
This is like the master within you, knows when you are ready.
I've actually got in a lot of trouble with this question but lets try it... "How much of your condition are you prepared to come out of?; or "What is your threshold for acceptable conditioning?"; in other words, what do you want to keep and what do can you do without? Now start going down everything you've ever been taught. Question everything as if for the first time. Seriously, start there and see if it does screw with you a bit. "Where do you live?", "What's your name and social security number?", "Do you have a bank account?", "Do you have a Drivers License?" These become really loaded questions now if you think about it hard enough. Where do I live? Well I live right here and now within the confines of my skin. Are you John Doe? How can I be John Doe? What is a name and how can it possibly be mine? For one thing the name is a word which is defined as a speech sound. So can I be a speech sound? Can I be a word? How is it that I end up with a name and presume it to be mine? Wasn't the name given? Why as this? Was this not to reference me in the past? You remember? John Doe. But don't I live in the past I live in the now? If I live in the now why do you refer to me in the past? I don't exist in the past, I only exist in the now. In the now I have no name. I am that I am. Any reference to me in past or future tense is speculation and hearsay. But, If I did not respond to this name we could never communicate.
And what about when a government agent approaches you? You know that name is exactly what he's coming for and exactly what gets you into trouble. If you reply with this name you've just entered ad personum jurisdiction whereby you've claimed to be a name. So what's the appropriate response? Because if you're John Doe and they come looking for John Doe and all charges levied are against that entity and not you per se but then you say, "yeah that's me" What choice does anyone have but to treat you accordingly?
So right there we can see how a simple thing like not knowing who you are can have major implications. To me, this is what it means when you hear someone say, "we've forgotten who we are." even though the speaker of the words may not fully grasp the implications themselves. Which is reflected in their actions when put to the test. Most of the lost souls don't know because they think they're someone else, they think they're a name, they think they're a person. You're not a person, you have a person.
So yeah, since we tend to refer to each other in past tense and always looking to the future not hardly present to the now. All we presume to "know" exists only in fiction which are all dead things. The society itself operates on debt, which debt=death; or a mortgage is mort-gage which is a death-pledge so it's no wonder and dare I say not unnatural to feel like you're surrounded by vipers. Beings either accept the programming or they don't and perhaps they accept different programming or multiple levels of programming. Which is why I ask if there is a threshold for acceptable conditioning. Many people have opted to cling to curtain principles which bind them and yet they don't see it and until the capacity to see the truth blossoms within. Until the desire to truly see emanates from them as their own inception, they simply cannot see and hear the truth. Once you know it, you know it and you will be able to detect it in others. You will know this because those who cannot see and hear the truth likewise cannot speak it.
"Will he finish what he begins?"
Don't become fearful of enlightenment for fear of alienation. You must not become discouraged by this alienation. You must follow threw and find the others. Those who can at least either see or hear the truth but may not have the broader vision you do and you must remember the inception has to start with them. So you, sow seeds of thought, test the edges, challenge people but don't cripple them. Everyone is in their own process and awakening in their own way if in fact they are at all. Perhaps they aren't prepared to hear your truth. That seed you sow today could be watered by another and fertilized by the next. Invent new ways of cracking open peoples shells, test them, see what's really inside. See if your own views stand on their own.
http://www.evolver.net/user/absalom/blog/alan_watts_fear_enlightnment
"Seek not abroad, turn back into thyself, for in the inner man dwells the truth..."
