should Evolver stop promoting love?
posted by A Caramel Giraffe | May 27, 2010
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IcerocketI just watched this very interesting clip of the mystic, Osho, delivering part of a lecture in which he purposed that "love is hocus-pocus"
he even goes so far as to say that those who promote love and compassion are actually at fault for the lack of authentic love in the world.
Instead he says, that we should only follow our awareness.
That to preach love and compassion, regardless of their value, is only to encourage a pseudo-love, that lacks the true authenticity of the heart.That we should love in awareness, hate in awareness, live in awareness.
That if we are aware of anger, it will disappear, that if you are aware of love, it will become stronger.
That what deepens with your awareness is virtue, and what disappears with your awareness is sin. Therefor, it is all subjective to the individual awareness, but at the same time, very concrete and consistent.
While i found a lot of what he says in this about the lack of love in the world to be very cynical and embellished, I think that he may have brought up a very interesting topic. It reminded me of the fact that it is not uncommon to see people throw up a peace sign in a photo these days, but in no way stand for the peace that the symbol represents. I think that he is trying to point out that love does not work it it is just the "cool" thing to do, but rather that it must come from a more authentic source.
While i have no plans to drop the word "love" and "compassion" from my vocabulary, should there be more of a focus on this site, and in this movement on pure awareness, and less of an emphasis on pure love?
I'd really like some feedback on this one, because although these are all just words, they do have very profound effects on people, and are paramount to the ideas that we're trying to develop here.
What do you all think?
Comments
I think love is great
— May 27, 2010
and I promote it as much as possible, but I do it in a way that teaches people how to love and doesn't just say "ok now love !"
I wrote a blog about the zillion ways to make love and it's very simple and honest and easy. I think we do need to keep talking of love and keep bringing the word up because not everybody knows what love is or how to find it or make it if they can't find it.
Osho also likes to wear fancy things and sit in fancy chairs and I am cautious of prophets and spiritual leaders who dress up too much. I like Gandhi and what Gandhi had to say. he was super humble and he made his own clothes, or at least his own fiber and he taught others how to do it too. I love Gandhi and we should have more of him.
In Lak'ech Ala K'in
That's a good question. I
— May 27, 2010
That's a good question.
I love the teachings of Osho, but I have to admit that everything should be taken into context, along with a grain of salt. The way he dealt with love and relationships in his personal life is just as relevant as what he had to say on the subjects. I'm pretty sure he hated even the slightest attachments to other people -- but especially in regards to relationships. He hated the word, "Relationship." If that's really true, then it explains a lot. Doesn't he have a whole bunch of kids?
It doesn't make me reject anything Osho taught, he has been without a doubt one of the most influential modern philosophers of our time. He's one of my favorite teachers, regardless of what he did in his personal life. My point is the grain of salt. It's still relevant, and everything plays.
You're right about how key actions -- like love and compassion and peace -- tend to be acted out in a puppet show, or charade. They are, more often than not, bent to serve the purpose of the individual. Hell, you can attack someone in the name of peace. It happens here, just like anywhere.
So yeah, I agree. I'd like to see more of an emphasis on awareness first. Good question/post, take care
love love lovelove love?
— May 28, 2010
Yeah, genuine love is important. But I feel like spreading just the thought of love is good. If there's a loving tone, talk of love, I at least feel like, "Hey, they're in the pursuit of love," so I feel free to be how I am, say whatever comes to mind, knowing that any non-love that comes up from others is all in their pursuit of love. But love can be twisted (especially in families or in the church ("Jesus loves you so you need to do X for the church")), can be used to cover up non-love without actually facing the non-love (e.g. saying "I love you" out of guilt). So in that way it's important to have awareness. I guess I just feel like spreading the message of love is important and feeling the love is important. In my own self I want to feel free to support love and express love, but also be in pursuit of being aware of the love (and all the blockages to that love) as consciously as possible.
"Spinning in circles / Walking a straight line." - Trey Anastasio
thanks for the responses!
— May 28, 2010
Your answers all confirm what I had basically suspected, which is that talking about love is an effective way of cultivating it authentically in one's own life.
What I was really concerned about however, is not love in the context of the people on this site- it seems to me that most people on this site are very aware of their own love, and that of others, and are well on their way to becoming the evolved/evolving kind of people that this movement is striving for.
Its the people who are completely unaware of all of this that I was referring to-
those who are strangers to these ideas, and who upon seeing them, will be trying to grasp them for the first time.
to somebody who only knows of the love and peace that one might see as a caption for a picture of John Lennon or something of that nature, should a focus on self-awareness be emphasized equally as strongly as the word love?
I think that sometimes (or at least in my experience), they are even MORE cynical that Osho was being in this video, and have been convinced that all this talk of pure love is just some hippy-dippy bullshit...
and for those people, would it maybe be more effective to bring in the art of awareness?
Once again, im really not sure-
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.” -Albert Einstein
Well, love is a debatable
— May 28, 2010
Well, love is a debatable thing, isn't it? Is pure love the same as unconditional love? If it is, then we're all on the same page. But see, I think what you're getting at is we don't necessarily live up to the unconditional aspect. And I agree with that.
Because I can't honestly say I love unconditionally. There are conditions that make it possible -- or impossible -- for me to love completely. I'm not denying the existence of unconditional love -- but I have my doubts as to its purity within my own self.
What I *can* say is unconditional within me is my desire to understand outside perspectives that are relevant to my own.
When we deny one another unconditional love, the energy is compromised.
Have you read My Ishmael by Daniel Quinn? I bring it up because a lot of discussion in that novel revolves around the difference between groups comprising of individuals that serve one another on the whole, versus groups that comprised of individuals that simply take and take and take. Generally, in group or tribal living, individual burdens are carried by the whole group. In the contrasting group, the self-serving one, you are left to take care of yourself. Your problems are your problems only.
Now see, that's what I think of when we talk about unconditional love. Your love is my love -- your pain is my pain -- your problems are my problems. Not just that, but everybody else's too. No one is left out of the scheme of things.
But this is a huge concept to grapple, and understanding what it means is not the same as putting into action. So yeah, again, I think an emphasis on awareness should come first. You can know the language of love and still not know how to speak it fluently.
Great discussion, very thought-provoking =) Cheers
Ah thats very
— May 28, 2010
Ah thats very interesting...I'v always know that Osho was aware of the fractal science but just didn't know exactly how because he never called it that. It was always staring me in the face though! Awareness IS the fractal science!
That what deepens with your awareness is virtue, and what disappears with your awareness is sin. That makes sense scientifically. In a fractal order self orders and disorder cancels itself out or self destructs!
So instead of you dropping the words "love" and "compassion" just understand what they really mean. Some people will say that "love" is subjective, well it isn't. There has been extensive research on it and it is always the same. It is even encoded in the word itself: Love- Lo-Phi. It is the Lo-Phi frequencies of the heart in the moment of love. So when he says all you need is awareness that makes sense. Because scientifically awareness itself creates Compassion/Compression! Focused human attention creates implosion. Which in turn either self orders if it is a "positive" emotion(fractal/compressible) or self destructs if it is "negative"(non-fractal/compressible) . Thats why we need not worry about negativity and hate in the world. Ultimately it will self destruct! Focused human attention creates implosion,If you focus on your finger with enough attention you will feel a tingle. When you unify the vision of Castaneda, Osho, Dan winter. It starts to become very clear...
Money-a symbol for the efficient distribution of human energy.
ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE!
— May 28, 2010
I believe love should absolutely be promoted, preached, and should percolate every single aspect of your life every day! Love is all there is!
One Love, and Peace on Earth.
To be aware is to be aware
— May 29, 2010
To be aware is to be aware of love, love is embedded in awareness
I don't promote unwavering
— May 29, 2010
I don't promote unwavering love so much as respect. Having respect for one another shows love, even when dislike is present. And I dislike many of you.
But not you CG, I extra love you.
“An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come.”-Victor Hugo
I've dropped love and have
— May 30, 2010
I've dropped love and have replaced it with cherishment and it seems to work much better.
I have to agree with Osho
— May 30, 2010
I have to agree with Osho and disagree with most of the people here.
It's one thing to talk about or "promote" love (whatever the fuck that means) and another thing to actually DO love or be loving.
What do we even mean by the word "love"?
I think if you even have to bring it up and say "we should love one another" that that is indicative of a very serious problem.
thanks for all these ideas!
— May 31, 2010
first of all, thank you fractalbob for showing me how awareness ties in with your amazing science that I always struggle to understand. and upontheshelf, I appreciate you putting osho's words into perspective, because you're certainly right that it should be felt before it is analyzed. and lastly, Ive been having very similar thoughts to both of you, female warrior and joanne- its nice to see that others have reflected on them as well... (and you all make some great points)
and i love you too meg!
THe conclusion that I have come to for my own life after hearing the things that everyone had to say is that if you were to think of our world as someone with some sort of mental illness, then love could be seen as a short-term medicine just to stabilize it enough to gain control-
awareness on the other hand, could be seen as the therapy- the long-term healing that is what truly fixes the problem.
so perhaps love is still very useful as the guiding ideal to strive towards, and awareness is the long-term method which can be used to reach that goal sustainably.
as jon said so elegantly, "To be aware is to be aware of love, love is embedded in awareness"
I'm not sure if I articulated that very effectively, but basically as of now i'm thinking that I will certainly continue to try and promote and exemplify the love and respect and cherishment that I hope to see, but also incorporate the importance of self-awareness in discussions, as it will be the only thing to bring us authentically to that love that we so need and desire
i know that this new way of communicating will really help me to reach out to others in a way that is much more effective in helping them, and i'm extremely grateful for that.
i really appreciate the help friends, and i hope i can repay you all with the same insight at some point in the future
love you all!
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it.” -Albert Einstein
I think...
— Jun 10, 2010
If awareness is the substance of the movement, love is the charisma.
Preaching awareness will only get so many in the door, but love throws open the floodgates. Even if its pseudo-love, those who have the awareness to back up the talk will point out these flaws.
