Something from Nothing

posted by SOLRAC | March 9, 2010

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Soooo...I recently learned that this crazy guy named Parmenides who was a Pre-Socratic philosopher in ancient Greece had this dream that a goddess was showing him the true nature of reality and that this dream was the basis for his philosophical standpoint: that it is impossible to think of nothing, furthermore impossible to think of something that does not exist.
"Wait a minute...unicorns don't exist, but I can think of those"
Well according to him unicorns do exist because you can think of them in your mind, so anything that you can think of or better yet picture in your mind and has a referent would qualify as existing. It goes further; things that you cannot think of are necessarily impossible. So a unicorn can be physically possible, maybe in some possible world or by means of genetic manipulation but a thing that would be impossible would be a round square.
"What the hell..round square?? I can think of a round square"
the truth is you cannot think of a round square because a round square has a concept but no referent, which is something that designates it in the real world.
"Well what about love and happiness those things are abstract and don't have a referent"
but they do, although we cannot see the essence of those abstract concepts, if there truly are, we can see examples of those things such as love and happiness in the world as well consequences from those things. We cannot see examples or any kind of manifestations of round squares. Where am I going with this you ask? Parmenides continues by saying that if things that don't exist cannot exist then it is impossible for things that once did not exist to come into existence and vice versa. He concludes by saying that nothing really exists except one unchanging, incorruptible, indestructible, etc etc ...Thing. Whether you agree with this is up to you, but I would like to focus on is what he says about things not being able to come into existence or cease to exist. If this claim is true then does that mean we are eternal in time? or the universe eternal? what sorts of implications happen given this claim, that things cannot go in and out of existence, is true? I am open to any thoughts, criticism, ideas, add-ons, cooking recipes...whatever. I apologize if this blog isn't clear it was written very fast

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6 Comments

Comments

Hi Solrac

Steve — Mar 10, 2010

Thanks for this.

To me this perspective leads to the oft-repeated and talked about idea that there is only one 'now'. I don't really feel like going on a serious ramble about this at the moment, but my experience has confirmed this idea.

All of my experience is contained within me. My 'now' moments in the past I re-create every time I think about them. I give them the emotional charge that I had when I experienced them if I go completely back into the awareness I had 'then', or I completely and totally change the significance of those moments and therefore their impact on my current 'now' as well as their impact on my future 'now'.

Is this real? or just in my own mind? As I said, my experience shows me it is real. I have changed my perspective 'now' on different episodes in my past where I felt hurt or taken advantage of, and the result has been a new, positive and unforeseeable relationship with those people with whom I have previously lived in conflict with.

To me, this indicates there is an element of truth in the idea that nothing is 'known' that has not previously been experienced. There really is no one alive today who has experienced true liberty, freedom and love among one's brothers. I think the oldest person alive is 115 or so. Go back that far in our modern history and we can see constant conflict everywhere in our world.

And yet, the idea of true liberty for all is 'real' in the hearts of everyone who yearns and works for it in service to all. This indicates to me that at least on the level of race memory we do know from experience this concept. Whether or not the concept of 'race memory' is defined as a result of experience outside of a physical human body or as a result of our inherited genetic structure is inconsequential to how we utilize the concepts we embody now.

We know this stuff 'now' is my point. To me the larger process going on in society illustrates the individual dilemma of accepting this idea as something livable, which this theory would seem to confirm.

Peace,
Steve
eggonalimb.net

Hmmm

Carcar — Mar 10, 2010

Well seeing that I JUST saw ur post but I was texting with you about this today, I think I just have one more question...it's about the round square. SO as long as whatever you are thinking about has a referent it can exist? Soooo is it because a round square is just an idea but cannot be physically made or pictured in our mind, it does not exist? Is that right? Or the fact that we can think about it makes it exist? Wouldn't it be just that we have labeled these shapes, I mean we gave them a name, so there is no way there could be a round square but what if we named a circle a square then we would have a round square...does it just come down to the words that we put on these objects? But the fact that we can even think of the concept makes it exist...we just can't wrap our minds around it or give it a physical structure because we grew up knowing the names of these objects. Just answer that first, and then I have another question for you darlin'.

*BeSitOs*

Addendum:

Steve — Mar 11, 2010

I recently watched a video and at one point they referenced the building of the great pyramid. in that description they said that because of the way it was built geometrically speaking they (the builders) did in deed 'round a square' but as I am only an egg, I do not know what they meant.

Perhaps someone who does know geometry can speak to this? what that guy meant by saying that?

Thanks.
Steve
eggonalimb.net

Existence and non-existence

monkeyman — Mar 12, 2010

Wow,
Stumbling on this is like tripping beyond....

What comes up for me is the Heart Sutra of Buddhism... "Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. Form is none other than emptiness and emptiness is none other than form." From this statement is the beginning, the question of how we perceive all that is. For the buddhist philosophers who called this study, the abhidharma (the study of emptiness or non-existence)... the emptiness was not the nothing as in the empty set with nothing in it because even the empty set is bound by the something which descriminates it as being not of being. So emptiness, the nothing which was called the pure ground.... was the higher ground because all of what we can describe is heapped up upon heaps (the skandas) to create the creation. Everything is codependently co-originated. (I know it takes a while to unravel that BS)

So sure, the mental faculty to conceive of the rounded square or the unicorn is part of the formulation of form and in some manner exists just because we can form it in one of the leaves of being called mind. So yes unicorns do exists my dear Solrac... but maybe not as you would want them to exist or conceive them to be. And wanting them is desire, and desire can cause a great amount of suffering and hardship... to end that desire is the key freedom...

Therefore, silence is the great teacher when it comes to all of this. One can play word games forever, "what is the sound of one hand clapping." but our fundamental ground of being is so wide open and free that when we stop our world in silence and just be...........

Peace

wow

SOLRAC — Mar 14, 2010

I appreciate these responses.

Steve: Interesting explanation. I enjoyed what you had to say about experience and you personally.

E. Sam: Thank u for the website. Im familiar with Bertrand Russell and look forward to looking at his theory. Those puzzles you mentioned are great.

Aruntabear: Wow, I wasn't too familiar with Buddhism but that is extremely intersting.

Carcar: Hi babe, referent has nothing to do with language it is the designation of the thing we are referring to when we describe something or make a proposition. round squares are impossible because they are a contradiction similar to a married bachelor or 2+2=5. Those things by their very definition cannot be possible. No in any possible world. Well maybe not the mathematics thing if we were being deceived by God or something.Love u