A way to Stop Arguing
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We all argue here an awful lot don't we? Anyone that's been on this site for a while has probably seen me get into my fair share of comment arguments. I think I've figured out a way for a lot of the arguing to stop. What happens if we all choose to believe one principle? That principle being that Belief is a tool. What this means is that the belief doesn't matter, the story why you believe it doesn't matter, the “proof” behind it, how many other people believe it, none of that matters, all that matters is what the result of the belief is. What is said belief contributing to your life?
When you get down to the books, or the labs, or dreams, consciousness, meditation, philosophies, or anything for that matter, you can find a ton of different explanations for what anything is, or what one should believe. Science is dedicated to finding “proof” for what people should believe. Religion is all about what one should believe and why. Philosophy is all about debating what the best beliefs are. If there are a number of different fields that are all trying to explain reality, explain consciousness, explain life, why would anyone ever think that they knew anything about any of these issues? I don't know shit about this stuff. I sure talk and argue like I do though. On Evolver I've argued against past lives, against being anti-money, against people that were against Ayahuasca retreats, for and against the use of psychedelics, and probably a hundred other things, but really I don't know anything more than the next person about any of those things, and neither do you. I have people tell me all the time how smart I am, and I always think to myself “why”? Why am I smart? Is it because I've read a bunch of books, because I retain information, because my brain thinks about things fast, processes things fast? Is there a reason? Well personally, I don't think I am smart, or anyone's smart for that matter, nor is anyone dumb, they are just different. They have a differently built belief system that leads to different behaviors and different results in life than mine.
I repeat BELIEF IS A TOOL. If I were to build a house I would probably need more than one tool wouldn't I? I guess I could build a shack with enough wood and a hammer right? Well what if I want a three bedroom house for me and my family? I would need more than a hammer, and I would need more than a bunch of wood. I would need metal's wrenches, sanders, screwdrivers, carpet stretchers, all kinds of crap. Now what if I want to build a mansion, something with six or seven bedrooms? I would need lots more tools and lots more supplies. Okay now lets say that I want to build a huge Bill Gates style house that does everything for me and talks to me and all kinds of crazy shit? What kind of tools would you need for that? What about the supplies you would need for that house? Well I believe that a belief system is much like a house, except someone has told us that we can only have one house and that's it. Also a number of people get their plans for their houses from someone else. There is another way that we can use this house analogy for a belief system. Do you drive down the street looking at peoples houses and think “that guy is an asshole, he built that all wrong”? I'm guessing you don't. So why do we judge so many people for their beliefs, that they've often times not even decided for themselves? So lets say we buy a “house”, but then we like the bathroom in someone else's house? Should we not build that bathroom because it wasn't part of our original floor plan. Screw that I'm building the bathroom. What if I want to have a smart house that talks to me? I'm building that also. And I'm putting in the pool I want, the spa I want, decorating the bedrooms the way I want, picking out the paintings, furniture, carpet, tile, everything is going to be the things I want. Then when I decide that something else will work better for what I need, some chair or couch, I'm going to get the new chair or couch. Now if you're thinking about everything I just said in terms of a house it all makes sense for a home owner, but when you're following the analogy of the house being the Belief System this is not how we behave with it.
What does believing Christianity do for you? What does believing in the theory of evolution do for you? What about Paganism, Satanism, Buddhism, Muslim, or anything else, what does believing them do for you? Being an environmentalist, vegan, bicycle enthusiast, Psychonuat, activist, or other social things, do for you? What they do for you is what I believe people should be thinking about, instead of why their way is the right way, which is what most people do now. “I'm vegetarian because....., I'm a pagan because.......I'm a christian because.......” I don't really care about why. What are those beliefs adding to you quality of life? And don't tell me salvation or truth, because I believe those things too are belief's themselves. I answer to what you get out of beliefs shouldn't be belief's in my opinion. For instance if I do a sigil as described in the chaos magic system of belief it involves me manifesting a desire, that's getting something. Just like it takes a long time to build exactly the house you want, chances are you would be building forever to get exactly the house you wanted, it takes a long time, probably forever, to get the belief system that is exactly what you want. So if you read this and it sounds plausible for you and you are willing to change things up a bit I'd like you to do something for me. I want you to try out a new belief that you hadn't previously participated in for at least the next month. If you feel the need comment what you are changing below. I'm also ready for the comments from people defending their perspectives and belief systems, and that's their right.
Comments
Sorry, sorry to be off
Sorry, sorry to be off topic. I understand your frustrations with everyone saying what they'd like to see, but no one with the time or resources to make it happen. I get that. And I am starting a spore, we've already met a few times but haven't made it official because there's only three of us so far and I also have limited time. We're working on it.
I'm not sure what I have to say on the concept of belief being a tool, but the understandings that I do hold give me a sense of comfort that I never felt before, they help me not want to escape this life and make me appreciate the present. I was an atheist with no belief in anything other than the scientific method until a year ago, so I'm a little new to the spiritual side of life. Most evolvers are way beyond me in the realm of esoteric knowledge, I have no desire to catch up because it's not possible. I just learn what I can when I'm able, like everyone else.
Today I wouldn't say I hold a great deal of beliefs that can't be changed. We should be always evolving, adding to our structure, building our house as you put it. The only belief I really live by in life is that one's purpose is to serve others, and in doing so we serve the self.
To me, a 'belief' involves a faith that something exists even though it can't be proven. What we really all 'believe' in is an understanding based on proof from what we've witnessed and studied in our own experiences. Others call it belief because they did not witness what we did. It is my opinion that what everyone believes is real and true. I was not there, I did not see what they have seen. Everyone's life is so different and different 'tools' are needed to cope with different situations.
So hopefully this post is a better response to your blog. You seemed pretty irritated in your response to me so perhaps I've offended you some way I did not intend. It would seem that my respect for what you do here on Evolver is not reciprocated, which kind of hurts my feelings but I'll be ok.
“An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come.”-Victor Hugo
Skree! Skipped over comments to post, prolly need to re-judge it
Skype Them. Dude, Whoa! See how evolver is connecting? Meg!? Chris! Whoa! Like unto a frakkn' Tsunami!
River: it's amazing!
It's great to see people interacting and connecting, I feel we are getting somewere!
ok here it goes...
Being Mexican gives the inside to developing world/third world mindset
Being raised catholic gives me an understanding of social bonds and relationships that go beyond a good fuck, preferences, opinions. etc... it gives me a connection with the divine even though I don't see or read anything that the bible says as historical truth but still like to pounder about it and get insights that are only for me and that if I share them with other they will be like...huh?
Being a man gives and advantage in this social structure that I was born into but also a big disadvantage because since I like to be different and go against the establishment I was bullied as a kid... bla, bla... (violins playing)
Being a meat eater gives me protein and when I lift weights I get muscle...
Being a debater allows me to grow intellectually and I get a chance to pick on peoples brains and see what they are about... and get my ideas challenged
Being empathetic allows me to get in the other person's shoes and see life thru their eyes at least for a moment...
Being able to draw gives me freedom to imagine and manifest... at least in paper...
Being bilingual makes my brain work harder but I learn a whole lot more.
Being a foreigner pushes my boundaries of what I know and are use to so therefore I get to explore different ways of being due to cultural differences...
Adios
SeRgIo
I get your point... there
I get your point...
there are patterns that no longer serve me... one by one those are being thrown out...
... next weekend... a journey may begin a door may open...=D... I'm excited
adios
SeRgIo
I've just read this post and
I've just read this post and all the comments. I agree with plenty of the things said here, but I still wish to make my contribution to the discution.
I quitte agree with Chris that believe is more of a tool than "the truth". I think flexibility is the key here.
We need believes for structure, it is an akward place to be in if you don't have any truths to hold on too.
The way I see it is that any knowlegde of things are temporary believes, till my knowlegde get's bigger on that subject and that believe turns into something else, either more complex or completly different. Never can one say what is the absolute truth so we might be better off looking at believes as guide lines, to be replaced with better ones has we progress in life.
That is the base for science, although it is not practiced most of the time by scientists thenselves!!
When I said that was the
When I said that was the base of science, I didn't mean to put science in any sacred place nor has my only believe, like many people of science do. I agree they tend to be square in their believes too.
What I meant is that, that principle of understanding that the things we believe are conditioned by our knowlegde of it, is a good one, even when it cames to spiritual or religious matters, being or not aplied to a scientific point of view.
I have a sceintific background, but I do not think is the only absolute way to look at the world, but there is good things about it.
Like you say, we need to understand what believes fit better with ourselves and our life experience. Don't take things for granted, test them, explore them as much as possible in our lives, that's what I do... It is pratically impossible for me to believe in something that doens't fit in my own life experierence, and when I say this I'm not talking about material things, I'm talking of all things. But I guess I spend, maybe, way to much of my time analising everything...

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