Simple Eastern philosophy Vs. Ultra Complex Western Occult Tradition

I wouldn't be so quick to judge, especially if one has not tried these methods much less understood them. Crowley also recommended "sacrificing a child" but did not actually mean killing another human being. Much "occultism" is shrouded in veiled words.

Crowley was one of the first, probably the first, to advocate "expansion of conciousness" through various means from the east and west. A lot of 60s counterculture took their cue from him. These are all spiritual technologies that the individual has to decide which is best.

Remember that sacred knowledge become "secret knowledge" hence "occult" after the X-tians came.

If you are interested in Crowley, follow up by researching his philosophy of Thelema and any local OTO bodies (Crowley's bequeathed fraternal order) in your area that may have classes about magick and Thelema. I do.

Granted; its not for all. Some people find some of Crowleys thought rather sinister, as Pinchbeck did. I think he was brilliant and misunderstood if not an obnoxious lout.

I always liked him b/c he was good natured about all the shit he took from the members on the old Toolarmy message board... which I miss! IMHO, you're in interesting, fertile, expansive territory but why the need to define it? If there are parts that are "too out there" for you, come back to it when you're ready... if you ever are. Your interests may take you in a whole new direction.

spiral out

could be manipulating your mind in the present now, from a trance somewhere in the past... he was that good.

;-)

line of inquiry may very well lie beyond distinctions of objective/subjective, rational/irrational, etc. i'm not defending nor denigrating crowley in particular, but the quick dismissiveness in DENIZ' response- not to mention his or her insulting and combative tone- seems typical of Western Secularism which, I might point out- is responsible for many of the problems- and few of the solutions- facing the world today. To find value in the invisible is to be attuned with the imaginative faculties of the mind. And many of yesterday's fantasies have become today's facts. Human flight? To board a plane and end up on the other side of the country in a matter of hours, with no physical exertion, is an act of transporting oneself across vast distances by will alone. Two hundred years ago this was called impossible- today it is commonplace.

Also, by "sacrificing a child" Crowley was talking about masturbation.

but the quick dismissiveness in DENIZ' response- not to mention his or her insulting and combative tone- seems typical of Western Secularism which, I might point out- is responsible for many of the problems

Was not trying to be insulting or combative, just saying it like I see it. I wouldn't blame "western secularism" for what I said, nor would I describe western secularism as some monolithic entity which is "responsible for many of the problems and few of the solutions- facing the world today"--that is painting with broad brushstrokes and pigeonholing anyone who doesn't share your beliefs as a "western secularist" (a Bad Thing, apparently).

To find value in the invisible is to be attuned with the imaginative faculties of the mind.
This sounds nonsensical. What is invisible that you're attuned with? Who says being secular means you are not in tune with your mind or imagination?

the value of this line of inquiry may very well lie beyond distinctions of objective/subjective, rational/irrational,
In other words, it occupies some space in the nether regions of the mind that doesn't really address concrete issues, and like I said, resembles navel gazing or sticking your head in the sand, when you could instead be looking at the world and making a difference. The point of my post was to echo the feelings of questioning the real-world value of this kind of head trip.

Also as with anything, be aware of the emotions it brings up in you. Emotion is the weaver of DNA. There is a whole language/science about emotion/DNA-Codons-on/off.
I have no idea what you're talking about, and it sounds suspiciously nonsensical. I wonder what is the value of this was? I would call it vaguespeak.

Also the theater he used was octahedron. Perfect for creating phase conjugation.
I have no idea what you're talking about, and it sounds suspiciously nonsensical.

After awhile I was convinced they where messing around with my DNA with the music, now I know how!;)
I have no idea what you're talking about, and it sounds suspiciously nonsensical.

Absolute certainty that an idea is wrong'is an attitude that has no place in science and one that discredits the scientific enterprise.
I agree with this statement but I don't see its relevance to this topic. There is no such thing as absolute certainty, but I'm fairly certain there is no santa claus, flying spaghetti monster or devil. Does the fact that I cannot be absolutely certain about their non-existence mean that I should give up on critical thought and stop using my brain to analyze what reasoning tells me is likely or reasonable? Should our beliefs be reasonably justified for us to have them or shall we all just believe whatever we fancy at a given moment?
Just because I cannot say anything with absolute certainty doesn't mean I should not criticize ideas which lack any strong foundation or any evidence for their existence. It also doesn't mean I shouldn't criticize people's beliefs for being based on fantasy or delusion. There are plenty of ways to help the world and they're not mysterious or remote, so why indulge in these flights of fancy? Who is it really helping?

You could say that I fail to see the value of these things because I am lacking in some fundamental capacity to perceive them. It's possible, but I doubt it. The thing about science and reason is that it's based on pretty simple premises usually and works outwards from there. For that reason it's actually pretty easy to understand, as long as you bother to follow and use critical reasoning.
This stuff is not easy to grasp or even begin to understand what you're talking about, that's why it resembles intellectual masturbation. Science and reason are simple to understand, so even complex science concepts can be explained to a layman fairly easily by an expert in a field. Not so with these remote, exotic ideas. So I don't understand them and they don't really make much sense and for that reason I question their value. If they can't be explained, one must ask what is really being said at all.

Simple Eastern philosophy Vs. Ultra Complex Western Occult Tradition

Eastern philosophy is not at all simple. It's just much of a rabbit hole as any western occult system. It's not a either or thing here. Nothing is black and white. Crowley was trying to figure out the universe, and so was the Buddha. I think we're confusing the map with the territory. We live in an abundance of different realities. from a whole spectrum of personality's. Why not learn from others. We shouldn't try to destroy the reality of others. When you point a finger you limit yourself and hurt others. When you learn from everything your limitless and no one's hurt.
I Personally resonate with the occult. I see it in its present form as a mixing point between old world knowledge and present day technology. I see it as a short-cut. You can reduce anything you want. Western occult can be reduced to anything. Just like eastern philosophy can be reduced to practicing meditation and doing charity work.

Crowley always struck me as needlessly wordy, intellectual and dry. Much knowledge was couched in what is called "twilight language" in Tantra. So much of the Western tradition smacked of egotism, I decided to try elsewhere. It was then that I discovered the Eastern path and have been with it ever since.

A wonderful blend of Crowley, magick and Eastern Spirituality can be found in the works of Shri Gurudev Mahendranath. You can find his writings online at http://www.mahendranath.org/

Namaste.

It's simple.
Let's take a look to Crowley's life:
"When I look at Crowleys life I find little in it that I would want for myself. He was very much a lonely person, a drug addict, and seemingly was not capable to love another human being, male or female. He was married several times and had many lovers, but it seems that he drove most of them crazy. Two of his women ended up in mental asylums, and another ended up as a prostitute. Some of his friends and followers died as a direct result of his magickal adventures or killed themselves after being involved with him...."
http://visarganath.blogspot.com/2008/11/thelemic-magick-in-east-and-west...

"The SACRED (whatever that means) is surely related (somehow) to the
BEAUTIFUL (whatever that means)..."
Gregory Bateson

I have been exactly where you are (devoting tons of time researching Crowley after discovering through TOOL, etc). I came to almost the same conclusion. However, my realization was, at he end of the day, just reading the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Gospels is of more inherent value than the needlessly confusing and adolescently 'dark' ideas of Crowley. I do feel that Crowley was a genius, and an intellectual and psychologically courageous man. However, so much of his trip seems to be about 'power' and his own ego.

"Sitting on the outside, just me and my mate. I made the moon come up two hours late. Ain't that a man?" -- Muddy Waters

Mwatcher8
For an easier more direct approach to the Western Magickal Tradition, I would recommend looking into the work of R.J.Stewart.