Creating Community
posted by Rob Meade | December 7, 2009
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IcerocketWhat is community?
I think a lot of people are obsessed by the concept these days, especially here. After all, that's how the website is advertised.
Because I think everyone here has a collective interest in fostering community, I'd like to open up a discussion about it. Let me know what you think community is. I will let you know what I think community is.
I think a community is like an ecosystem, and also like an economy (I'm borrowing from Jane Jacobs here). The richer a community, the more the energy remains trapped in it rather than flowing in and out. Now that might seem abstract and theoretical, but let me give some examples of poor systems to make it concrete.
In a desert, in the daytime the sun bakes the sand and its extremely hot, but in the night it gets cold because the heat radiates back to space.
In a factory town, capital flows into the town in a trade for the goods made at the factory (energy flowing out), and other necessities of life are purchased from outside (energy flowing in). Think Detroit.
The word community also brings up the association of something being shared by all (from the latin communis). This is the same for a town or an ecosystem which is a system of organisms sharing a particular place, or a town or a city.
But how do we share? It is not simply a matter of being on the list of members and residing in a particular location. We share by capturing energy coming from outside, and making use of it in the community- before it is returned. The energy comes in as a gift, but that gift won't last forever. In order to persist, any community needs to establish it's own reason for persisting.... it has to give to and take from itself. Only then is it ready to give to the world.
Of course, all of this has application for us here at Evolver. The reason I'm writing this is because I think it can benefit us here, especially those of us involved in building communities (virtual or real). It's otherwise known as 'sustainability', but that's really a lacking term because healthy ecosystems and economies are always growing and rewarding growth (and real growth is different than the consumption of resources, which gets back to my idea about community).
The energy we are dealing with is mostly information at this point. Everyone who writes a blog or responds to one is giving a gift. The point I'm trying to make here is not that people need to write more or better blogs or respond more (or even that we are doing anything wrong in the first place). It's about how the blogs and the responses relate to each other. How should they relate? Well, that's a creative act and it's up to everyone to put those pieces together.
For example.... think about the 'groups' aspect of this website. There is a 'visionary music' group, for example. What is it other than a list of people who like the same music? What are the steps between what that group is now, and in the future something where the members of that group can actually make music together... or function as a distinct artistic community?
But I can point out some examples of this in action. I think one great thing is when a blog is nicely written, and then the author takes time to converse with everyone that posts a comment. Another thing I've noticed, is that people are shy about arguing with each other. An argument is one of the most constructive forms of communication out there if you think about it. It also takes intelligence and maturity to argue in a way that is truly constructive... but when we do, it is a great way to get out of our own heads and our own egos and really connect with the other. Sometimes it paradoxically letting our egos have the run of the yard and get into mischief... That leads to self-understanding. And yes, it involves being hurt but that's the point. We have to get beyond the fear.
And one more thing about Community... lets also remember that like the word Love, it can also mean Separation. If I talk about 'the business community' or 'the visionary community' what I mean by it is all those who are businessmen or visionaries compared to those who are not. All I'm talking about is a common attribute based on separation, and that's bad news folks. So lets be careful about how we define ourselves as a community and what kinds of doors we are shutting when we think we are making connections. At it's worst it's like putting up the 'no girls allowed' sign outside the clubhouse. And I know we're all pretending we never did that but lets get real folks.
cheers,
Meade
Comments
community
— Dec 07, 2009
This is a good question you are posing here and I have never really thought about the concept "community" in detail before.
You would like to know what I think community is - well here it goes. I think there are different forms of community based upon what kind of "need" is to be fulfilled. With this I mean you have local communities that gathered/united due to reason of survival (protection, sharing of food gathering, production etc etc) this developing into our communities like villages, towns, cities. The there are communities that fulfill e.g. the need of self-esteem, belonging in a broader way i.e. business communities etc. And then I think there are those communities that are sought to fulfill the needs of coming together with like-minded people sharing the same values and beliefs - not because of the rules and laws set out (this is community nr 1 and 2 in my eyes) but because there is a real connection and a real basis of shared understanding.
I am not sure whether this makes sense at all. But this is kinda how I see it. And within community nr 1(i.e. local communities) there can be also n2 and n3 communities. So all kinda interlinked as well but based on what needs to be fulfilled.
When it now comes to virtual communities like the one here - I am feeling that there is still a sense of unease and not knowing how it really is to work. I think people gather here with the same understanding and a connection but I feel also it is much more difficult to really get a community feeling. As with community nr3 I mentioned above, this for me is still a local thing i.e. friends and such. These you do see face to face, interaction is to be had and discussions are thrown in the mix as well. It is also based on an exchange of ideas and on learning from another.
Here these things are also done and possible, but I kinda feel we are only in the development stages yet. You mentioned issues like how to relate and such and I think we are just starting to learn and feel the potential there is. But I also think we need to become more general in our approach - what I mean by this is, is to be more inclusive. Like with friendships you know and feel that there are common core values and ideas that you share, but you also know that everyone around you and in this community n3 is an individual and different. And you listen to their differences and let them be voiced and heard. And if you do not agree you say so and explain why you do not agree and share your opinion. You know that you can do this and you know the other person will not see it as a personal attack but as what it is. A discussion, a debate - to exchange views and understanding that are not (yet) shared and only together you can then work on maybe even come to a view and new values and new ideas.
So, what I think I want to say is - we need to allow and (here I agree with you completely) foster debates and exchange of ideas. With this meaning to really engage so we all will feel part as we have created something together and not only providing our thoughts for everyone to see and read but actually creating an environment where we all really join in together and as a community evolve and not only as individuals.
Thanks for making me think about this :) It would be interesting to see a debate developing on this as what has been going through my mind since I read your blog is only just the beginning of my understanding and idea about it. I need to consider that concept of energy flow a bit more, this is a good one!
And one last thing - this issue with separation and that we need to be careful how we define ourselves. That's a very good point and should not be forgotten!
hi ck
— Dec 07, 2009
Thanks for responding!
I think you're right, that communities form to meet certain needs. On one hand, communities can be made from the start to separate... and mainly for that purpose... for example segregation or 'no girls in the clubhouse'. In this case it's usually about the needs of one group at the expense of another.
On the other hand, we have communities of interest online, the most successful so far being things like wikipedia, deviantart, flickr, forums dedicated to a specific purpose, and things like this. The internet community meets these needs pretty well because it basically makes it cheap to interact and organize with others like you. If you're interested in that subject a good book is Here Comes Everybody by Clay Shirky.
One good point that Shirky made is that almost any sort of community can be formed these days, there even is an example of adolescent girls forming a 'pro-ana' community to encourage each other's anorexia and find ways to help and support each other... how to eat less food and control hunger pangs and such!
Yes, we are still in the development stages and that's partly why I wanted to talk about the energy flow... its a good way of picturing what is going on. What I've noticed is that some people arrive here, from the start, with very high hopes and expectations, pour out their hearts for a little while, then leave disheartened for one reason or another. Energy in- Energy out. The energy we are bringing in is the gift. It's the meat contained in the seed. Not only that, but on another level, the creators of this website have devoted time and capital to their project. But a large part of that energy is being squandered, because the soil is poor. We need to think more like cacti, for the moment, and less like tropical orchids. I think we have to think of ourselves like pioneers, making the transition from their provisions to living off the land. Which means talking to the other people who are actually here, writing for them and writing back to them. We need to know what we have and work with it a lot more.
So, one way of remixing and improving the soil, is through debate and exchange of ideas. But there are many other ways... and like I said... it's a creative act. As people talk to each other, they become more invested in each other, and ultimately more invested in collective projects.
Oh, and just to mention it, if you're interested in the energy flow stuff, you might want to read Jane Jacobs' The Nature of Economies.
Cheers,
Meade
I am such a Earth girl. All
— Dec 07, 2009
I am such a Earth girl. All my concepts of what a community is are based on Nature... Yesterday we were driving down the free way.. I was lost in thought when suddenly I noticed 2 trees talking to each other. As I continued staring into this line of trees. I saw some more trees talking to each other.. and then some more.. and some more.. I used to work for Hallmark Cards in the creative photography dept, filing the photographers pictures.. there was this one of a line of people, all so very different, some turned and talking to each other, while next to then some more people talking to each other.. It was a whole line of people, not a circle but a line of people.. each one was touched in some special sense by another, but not necessarily being touched by all the others.... just like the line of trees I was looking at as I was thinking such a lovely community..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
here we are inside the dance of our creation.
What you pointed out
— Dec 08, 2009
What you pointed out Celeste, "each one was touched in some special sense by another, but not necessarily being touched by all the others" got me thinking going shopping today:
I think that it only requires one touch to touch all.
You mentioned that we usually only have the ability to touch those closest to us, which I fully agree with and which makes it special Rob.
And I think to touch those closest to us spreads our touch to all, as they have someone other close they touch and so forth.
Arriving at that thought, I stood at the cashier and smiled at her - thinking that this smile will now spread to every single one across the globe. :))
I have lately been musing on
— Dec 08, 2009
I have lately been musing on the idea of what communities might look like in the near future. In my mind's quasi-Kurt Vonnegut futuristic humanist landscape, the nations of the world would crumble under the pressure of peak-oil and food shortages. The masses would be freed from the illusion of international borders. There would be separation once more, and new nations would form, there would the Texan Empire, ruled by Jeb who would return from Florida to make sure his brother couldn't botch the responsibilities of Emperor. California and the Great Basin would organize only long enough to devolve in to a hedonistic bacchanal of self-destruction. The Pacific Northwest would become very prosperous, albeit incredibly arrogant. Mexico and Central America would be re-united as a contemporary Mayan Empire. Africa would remember its identity as Ethiopa, and enter a new age of prosperity. But of course this would be fleeting as all these nations relied on archaic energy sources, and sought to divide, not unify. And through this all there would be small, open communities, which are all part of a larger global community. Places where one can come and go, and feel free and comfortable in each place. One could pick up a shovel, and plant some seeds, wander off again and arrive in another small community and be able to share in the harvest. One's skills and talents would be offered freely in exchange for the betterment of others. This would be a worldwide community of people, who yearned not for power over others, but only self mastery, and wanted nothing but to be in service to others. In this way, everyone worldwide would be taken care of. I've already seen this work on a small-scale on a beach in Alaska where more than 20 people, including myself lived in tents. Individually we were each poor, but together we were always fed, sheltered, and often intoxicated. We were rich beyond our wildest dreams even though we had little money. This is the sort of community I wish to bring in to existence, one where everything is shared willingly. and we here on Evolver are already taking steps to make this a broad reality. Our community here is still in its infancy, I can't wait to see where it goes from here.
"Soon we'll find out who is the real revolutionaries." -- Robert Nesta Marley
...
— Dec 08, 2009
I like the part about being freed from the illusion of national borders. I'm having difficulty with that in my life at the moment :)
And I've got my tent ready to go. Tent communes and such are like training wheels for us. If I had the money I'd be living in a small geodesic dome right now.
Like I said... the word community is rooted in the concept of sharing something in common. But it's not as simple as giving up what you have. We have to be sure that our gifts are not squandered and exploited. So that's our challenge, to cultivate the system so that it actually makes sense to share our gifts. It's a lot easier on the internet than in real life, that's for shit sure.
Cheers,
Meade
great idea of a community Tinh Man
— Dec 08, 2009
you might also have heard/be interested in the following guy (he lived for a year with no money) and came up with the idea of freeconomy (i.e. using and letting things to be used, offering services and taking them for no exchange of money) - here's his bog/site: http://www.justfortheloveofit.org/
maybe it could also be an exchange of ideas to be had there?
maybe a bit off topic
— Dec 08, 2009
The above thoughts on national borders to disolve and new nations/states to be build reminded me of my studies and some of the work I did on cultural/national/ethnical etc identity (I compared the German/British approach to management and then looked into cultural differences in business negotiations - all pretty dry topics but once culture and idendity are thrown in it becomes huge and very interesting - I should have gone into social instead of business studies ;)..)
Now, during some of the research I came across a piece in a newspaper where they talked and envisioned the creation of European regions based on their skills/ressources etc. So for example country A will become a specialist in health, country B in energy etc etc. The notion of the piece was that no single country in the EU will be able to do it all so will need to specialise (think Adam Smith's The wealth of nations). Then all working within the EU and exchanging their specialities. The unterlying notion for me was that regions would be established - in an economic sense one would think that migration would occur of those workers and specialists to their respective specialist countries.
And then I was thinking that it will not work on a country/nation level - if there will be regions they will form in a different way based on cultural/ethnic levels. So e.g. Germany will no longer be the country of focus but be split, the UK as well etc etc.
Not such a far-fetched thought really when you look at Europe's history - shifting borders have always happened up to the lastest shift was in the 90s with the breaking up of Yugoslavia and might still not be over yet as not all issues are settled. Furthermore, when one considers that there was no such thing as Germany as we know of today until 1871...well you see where I take this
When Austria joined the EU in 95 and then influenced by my studies I got interested in a certain issue - North Tyrol (part of Austria) and South Tyrol (part of Italy). As one Tyrol they were part of the Austrian Hungarian Empire and after WWI, South Tyrol was "given" to Italy. Not many supported this - feeling their culture/their state/their union was being broken. There were times where it was tried to unite again but never came about - and this would be too much history to go into for now ;). However, what I have witnessed, and although there are "national" borders within the EU, with easing out border controls and more, the North and the South came closer again. Now, for example, when one goes to Tyrol one can watch the local news worked on together by both parts. And more and more collaborations are being put into existence.
To cut a long story short - although there are borders, communities tend to re-gather if they have been split up and still feel a strong bond based on culture/ethical identities etc.
Now, it would be interesting to see how nations/states/regions would reform if borders were taken away (and no political/economic pressures were the driving force in the re-grouping but cultural/ethnical identities). And it would be interesting to see whether these open communities would still get together then and if so how they would engage with the new nations/states/regions then.
...
— Dec 08, 2009
-ck
I've got to say, the idea of borders dissolving and regions being formed into specialist states really creeps me out. It's like the ultimate wet dream of global capitalism... not to mention the new world order and global government. Remember that corporations and the rich already know no borders... its just for us little folks to keep us in our pens.
I mean I understand the theory about greater efficiency but I believe that theory is flawed when blown up to such ridiculous proportions...
I also think that brings up the issue about separation I was talking about... specializing lets you get really good at doing one thing, but it is also extremely separating because you are in effect building up walls that shut out everything else, and that may have the effect of reducing some confusion... as well as other benefits. But it comes at the great cost of ultimately losing your connection. I would even put specialists in the category of that type of community that is based on separation, like the segregating communities I talked about before.
As technocrats, we think we are really great at thinking up planned communities, usually involving extremely sophisticated plans for specialization and boiling everything down to something like organs in a body... but it ends up turning into something like the projects in NYC, big grey dead zones. Or factory towns that eventually die because they lack the vitality to evolve and be dynamic. Our artificial separations are completely ignoring the reality. Like you pointed out with North and South Tyrol, ck... looking closer at the contrast between that real community, or that real web of shared relations economically and culturally, versus the artificial and political separation of a border.
cheers,
Meade
point taken
— Dec 09, 2009
I agree, Rob...with the current understanding and existing of government as well as the prevailing economic system capitalism, specialisation of regions would only result in separation..even on a grander scale than it is already in place now (think East vs West, North vs South, developing vs developed etc etc)
taking away borders would need a taking away of current government understanding (and not creating a world governemt) as well as re-organising/re-creating our economic views
I have a problem with national borders...especially those being put into place arbitrarily (well actually due to power and control issues) as I think the national communities that have been created foster a them vs us view. The German vs French, the US vs the EU etc. National borders that have been created never take into account underlying communities based on shared history, culture, ethnics. Take ex-Yugoslavia or even the British-drawn border of Pakistan which has always and will always create upheaval in the region.
But I have hi-jacked your blog on communities. So coming back to this now - and in a view of crossing national borders - communities can be created globally as long as the members of that communities allow themselves to, in part, disconnect from their previous understanding on how to categorise and make sense.
Take this community here - I don't care if someone is American, French, Danish, Indian or Chinese...or young or old, male or female...or what have you - what counts is the common notion we are sharing. And that we start to communicate on a different level. I know you mentioned it a couple of times, being open and allowing debate and an exchange of ideas in my eyes is an important factor of becoming closer. The better we "understand" eachother, the closer we become.
In Memoriam Oh my
— Dec 09, 2009
In Memoriam
Oh my children
Not so very long ago
probably in many places still
we lived in communities
in which we had pride and dignity
Small enough for everyone to
know your name
Large enough for a diverse
resource of skills
and personalities
Caring, squabbling, challenging
as family
Able to leap tall edifices
and find a way when a way
must be found
Entrenched in lessons of former days
while planning for breaking future ground
Not just a pretty myth
like solidarity of kith and kin
Community, living within
a solid sphere,
a social network of mutual support
often said to be what we are here for
(I hear you sneer; you who tear down magic,
hope, and love)
It could be, community,
our prayed for cure (balancing salvation)
to the follies of humanity's
deadly love
of war
...
— Dec 09, 2009
You didn't hi-jack my blog ck. You can have the keys for a while as long as you promise to give them back.
I suppose theoretically, borders create community out of separation. It's just like putting up a wall, essentially. But even that is not a black and white issue because borders or walls when used correctly may also protect communities and allow them to form in the first place... for example small towns might benefit from putting up a metaphorical wall or rules in place to keep Wal-marts out (encouraging the production of local goods). I think everything has it's proper place.
Debate and exchange of ideas is key. The main idea there is that we simply keep on talking to each other about something. A conversation that goes back and forth a few times whether it's agreement or disagreement, is always on a completely different level than either hitting the grok button or posting 'way to go' under a blog.
Another thing that can help us, that I'd like to bring up, is also from Jane Jacobs... she talks about 'positive feedback' systems.
"Positive feedback, sometimes referred to as "cumulative causation", refers to a situation where some effect causes more of itself. A system undergoing positive feedback is unstable, that is, it will tend to spiral out of control as the effect amplifies itself." -wikipedia
So, it's pointed out that nature is made up of positive and negative feedback systems... and our community here is also made up of them. For instance, if someone posts on your blog and leave a great comment, you post on their blog and leave a great comment. That way they will be encouraged to leave another great comment on your blog and so forth. In reality it never really 'spirals out of control' like the wikipedia article says. This works on the same principle as local currency does... which is also a positive feedback system; spending the currency in the community where you know it will come back to you allows you to spend more currency in the community and so forth. Any community, any ecosystem is made up of an energy flow in a tapestry of negative and positive feedback spirals. That's what 'traps' the energy in the eco-community.
This is the power that allows the redwood trees in California to grow so high and the power that allowed Europe's cathedrals to be built!
I know I'm going into nerd territory here. But I really believe that if a group of people were to consciously, intentionally and consistently act on these principles with understanding they could accomplish a lot.
Cheers
no nerd territory
— Dec 11, 2009
I think you have a great vision - nothing nerdy about it :)
I too find communication essential as well as feedback (now that you mentioned this positive feedback even happening here - it's so true I did not see it that way before but upon reflection that's the way it works at times)
Here comes my impatience into play...what can be done to create such a place/environment or do we just need to be patient and it develops itself slowly?
Somehow I feel we all have great visions and ideas and understandings, and we love to talk about them and exchange our views...and that's about it. Most of the time no real "action" follows - or is this a thing that can not be pushed for?
On a same/different note - you might be interested in having a look at the following proposal for a community: http://www.justfortheloveofit.org/public/freeconomybooklet.pdf
...
— Dec 11, 2009
-ck
I'm impatient too. I think that there's a balance to be had between action and real growth and just talking about it. I think that a good rule to go by is, 90% of what people talk about on the internet isn't going to happen. But it's still probably worth it for that 10%. Furthermore, this is the only feasable way we can coordinate our actions globally.
I know for sure that social community-wealth takes a while to build up. There's no instant way to develop relationships with people and get to know them... and education (self-imposed or learned) is a long and painful process. What this technology provides is an instant way to communicate... and only that. I think there's a balance to be had.
I checked out the pdf and it's pretty cool... I'm already into all that stuff anyway. Don't get me started as that's a subject for a whole 'nother blog.
Wonderful and repressive
— Jan 20, 2010
Community can be wonderful and it can be repressive. I'm interested in ways of allowing the individual to be while still coming together as community.
Co-housing and co-working are examples that strongly appeal to me.
--
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