No Mind - No Thought - No Self
posted by Rick Hurst | April 4, 2011
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IcerocketMan: "Since there is no thought and no mind and no self, what is it that needs God?"
That is not exactly the right question.
The right question is what remains if there is no thought, no mind and no self?
The "Watcher" of thought, mind and self is what remains, and it is already one with Gods Light. It has no need because it already has all that it needs.
This is the state Jesus referred to when He said He and His Father were one, and it is the state Adam fell from, a oneness we must return to.
The watcher of thought, mind and self is one with the Light, for by It it sees.
All identification with thought, mind or self is what comprises and holds together the ego, a separate but illusory self that believes itself something apart from God but is really illusion, the no-self that falls apart at the grave.
When the ego is watched, it dissolves into the nothingness it really is. A meditator learns to die born he dies.
The only place in creation where God is not is hell. And the mind that sees itself as a self separate from God lives in its own hell.
This is the evil, the hell within us we must come to see through and overcome.
This is why great teachers teach us to come out of our thinking mind and teach us to become again the watcher of mind.
This too is what Jesus meant by telling us we need to be born again, to return to the state of a little child.
Children, at first, have no other identity but that of the watcher until the world begins to instill it's ideas and culture into him, which is the birth of ego, the birth of a "mind" separate from God, and this is the "self" we must die to.
Except a man die to his thinking mind, his "self", and is born again to his original watcher status, he can not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven already awaiting him within.
Comments
This is correct
— Apr 04, 2011
"The watcher of thought, mind and self is one with the Light, for by It it sees."
We do not "see" from this world as humans we see from the unnameable infinite as our true, perhaps eternal selves.
These are incorrect.
"This too is what Jesus meant by telling us we need to be born again, to return to the state of a little child."
This is not what He meant. what he meant was that an event occurs called being reborn. It is a spiritual experience where a spiritual wind , a wind of spirit blows away the spiritual life of an individual. . After this experience the individual is transformed and allowed access to spiritual experiences and understandings.
Meditation is a technique to experience enlightenment. It has two purposes to become enlightened and to access insight, second sight. it was never meant to be a permanent state of being. Many have lost their way.
(edit, omission)
Those with "eyes" will "see", those with "ears' will "hear".
I will not argue with you. You may believe as you like. I do not rely on believe for these things I have experienced.
Agreement
— Apr 05, 2011
Little children have no expectations. Being the watcher is a difficult state for us, we tend to want to participate. It is our nature.
One finds great difficulty in trying to transform that which one chooses to transform by using that which one is trying to transform.
Harbinger,
In the most simple terms, define what you call "enlightenment."
Enlightenment is an experience
— Apr 06, 2011
The phrase, "I have seen the light" is in fact, literal. It is literally a light and has nothing to do with emotions. Enlightenment is an event that is experienced in the metaphysical body also known as the "other". During meditation the world collapses and all is consumed in light. In Nagualism is is known as the "fire within". It lasts only an instant. Others in close proximity are scorched by this light. Whether or not this is detrimental to others i do not know but suspect it maybe. It should be handled with great care for it maybe dangerous. The scorching is also metaphysical but can be perceived in the physical. The scorching represents the fact that it is indeed a power, for it has the power to effect reality though in subjective terms. The miraculous defies natural law. This is the Buddha nuke. I believe Enlightenment is a transformational experience there are others as well. Those effected by it are never the same following the experience, their spirits have been altered. I have experienced it on two occasions, once as the "bringer" of the light, once as the "receiver". I was not pleased that I had been nuked/scorched; I am not sure why. When these events happened I was not seeking Enlightenment directly and it took years to understand these perceptions before there true natures became apparent.
I believe Buddha was ascended by the light, I was not but then again maybe I was. I still have more to learn about Enlightenment, check back with me in 20 years or so for an update. :)
What I have said is true. Only the enlightened will know for sure and they are very, very few.
"They" will understand this proclamation.........
I am the One.
The holy of the holy's
The masters will stand before me.
I will stand before the masters.
My place is in the circle of light.
Behold!
.
— Apr 06, 2011
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberation
The illusion of many , including myself, that they will be, can be freed of the self constructed prisons of their own mind by changes in conditions.
Does one who chooses to suffer,
— Apr 06, 2011
truly suffer?
A question for the Buddha (Siddhartha).
Ah yes,
— Apr 06, 2011
Now we are getting somewhere.
How about;
Liberation: Bursting the bubble of individual concept, or;
Re-configuring/removing one's software down to the operating system.
Enlightenment: Ever expanding awareness, with built in guidence, or;
Removing the firewalls to allow complete access to the mainframe.
As you know, these are probably the two most mis-understood words to a seeker. Of course, this humble interpretation could be completely wrong, but it may help someone get on the right path.
Meditation
— Apr 06, 2011
and the Zen state are one way to "insight" but it is inefficient. You can jack into the matrix directly without software reconfigurations. It is called "seeing" or "dreaming" the former being better then the later. The former allowing for more time in-world so to speak. Meditation does have one advantage over the other two; It clears the channel, reducing packet lose. There-by clarifying the signal, the abstract code that presents itself as symbolism.
Good question
— Apr 06, 2011
Is suffering still relevant outside of ones individual concept of what is causing the suffering?
If one has realized that the individuals desires lie within the concept of ones perceived needs, then there is no longer an attachement that would cause one to be without. How then would one suffer?
There are various forms of suffering,
— Apr 06, 2011
actual true suffering can not be over come by techniques, wants, wishes or desires. It is absolute, all inclusive and beyond denial. The mind as we know it does not function there nor is "no-mind" an escape for them.
For those I offer my most heart felt compassion and express my deepest regret.
I'm going to clarify at this point
— Apr 07, 2011
four classes of suffering
Absolute or true suffering ...... intolerable all consuming suffering.
Suffering .......... chronic long term suffering of mind and body. Often arising from dis-ease.
Relative suffering ....... Those that believe they are suffering when in actuality they are not. illusions constructed by the mind, relative to the experiences of the suffer and their interpretation of them
Normal suffering ....... common colds, pressure on the job, marital problems that sort of thing.
note edits 4/7/2011
OK.....?
— Apr 06, 2011
Your point was to discuss the nature of suffering. There is a bit of objective, subjective confusion on the part of the literal conclusion you chose.
You of course are correct, literally. But even if the suffering is literal, (physically, emotionally, physiologically and/or mental, etc..) it is not of the duration refered to by the Buddha.
The point, is over
— Apr 06, 2011
time the philosophy fails to solve the problem of suffering. No-mind is no defense against extreme suffering in a single life time for those in "absolute suffering" perhaps for many of those in "suffering", as well. I do believe the Buddhist way has significance worth therefore I continue to practice meditation. It is the gateway to Enlightenment. It can improve insight. It can center the turbulent mind. All major achievements.
Consider what I have said then reach your own conclusion(s).
The Harbinger.
Great Discussion, Thank You
— Apr 07, 2011
Nothing Exists
Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.
Desiring to show his attainment, he said: "The mind, Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness. There is no realization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity. There is no giving and nothing to be received."
Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe. This made the youth quite angry.
"If nothing exists," inquired Dokuon, "where did this anger come from?"
.
— Apr 07, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAX-heCjkjw&feature=related
but for you a moment of peace
