What material possessions are justified? Defining Excess
posted by Conscious Revolution | February 7, 2010
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IcerocketJust imagine we lived in ideal, just and sustainable world? What would that look like?
With so many people on the planet wanting the standard of living that the US is currently enjoying, I started to try to think about what level of possessions would be fair for all people and sustainable for the planet. It is not easy subject to think about and certainly goes against the idea of freedom of consumption. I am not advocating that there be any laws about this due the stifling of creativity, but I did think it might be a challenging way to look at how we live our own lifes and how our society is operating.
I don't intend for this to be an argument, because there is no "right answer", but maybe we could just discuss our reasoning for our ideas on this subject and all evolve because of it. This is a subject our corporate controlled consumption advocating mainstream media would never discuss.
Obviously the list would be different for people living in different places or for people with specific jobs. I thought it would be fun to imagine a sustainable world where everyone had what they really needed Can we define what is excess and self indulgence in our world? What is the level of possessions that all the world would be justified in having?
I think everyone would agree that
Everyone should have clothing appropriate to their climate. (Is there some amount of clothes that is too much?) are 20 pairs of shoes excess or is it 5 pairs or 30 pairs?
Everyone should have housing appropriate to their climate What would be the justified square footage of a house per person?
All should have Food and clean water.
Here are some of the interesting questions.
Should everyone own a piece of the Earth?
is all the world justified in having a cell phone, computer and digital camera?
Should everyone own a car?
Why discuss this? This is where we are heading. 6 Billion people in China are building a new coal plant everyday so they can produce material objects that we are going into debt to buy from them. What happens when we can't pay back our debt?
List of how to live sustainably
http://www.thesuntribe.com/transitionfortcollins.htm
Using Time to align
SunnGypsie~~~* www.consciousrevolution.com
Comments
...
— Feb 08, 2010
there are some simple rules we can follow- for example, as far as possession of material objects, I think if local communities made most of them from their own resources, the problem would mostly be solved. It's the same idea as, you can eat as much sweets as you like, as long as you cook them yourself... it just provides a natural limit to overconsumption. Another natural limit could be, you can consume as much as you like; as long as you dispose and recycle the waste completely. That means that every purchase you make, you will think twice because in the future, you will need to ensure that those thirty pairs of shoes or those plastic lawn ornaments are properly disposed of.
I think that having computers is a pretty essential thing though, perhaps more than a car in a sustainable future, because it's a great surrogate for overconsumption. If we have virtual surrogates for our physical urges, then we can accomplish the same thing in a world of virtual abundance, without wrecking the planet. For example... telecommuting instead of driving to work... cultivating online persona and gaming instead of collecting fashion items... creating digital art instead of lawn ornaments... eventually, having access to virtual worlds and virtual cities. Computers create a lot of pollution and consume resources too, but that's partly because of the way we build them... they use a lot less energy than most appliances and they are getting smaller and more powerful all the time.
Cheers,
Meade
I agree Meade
— Feb 08, 2010
I agree Meade. Good points and you worded it well. I think computers are integral for a post material consumption paradigm shift. I think everyone should have the right to a cell phone too or at least a merged phone-computer. I wish the government was using this stimulus money to help us move to a web based economy like the huge support that was put to launch the space program. I don't know what this could be, but I wonder if the "think tanks" even discuss this as a solution to our economic problems.
So many people are on the internet, but how many people are making enough money to survive off of it? I know there is second life and other virtual worlds where there is some kind of currency, but the path to society's transition to making a living on the internet is not clear. Makes me wonder what percentage of net users are making a living on it? That data might be available somewhere. Also what you said about the cost of disposal makes so much sense. So that leads to the next question. How could that idea of consumers paying the real costs of recycling and disposal come into being? Seems like again it has to be a government initiative.
...
— Feb 08, 2010
Well, I'd say e-business is a pretty sizable sector of the economy right now. A lot of people make money on ebay, or working in internet related jobs like web design. So you have to include that. Obviously people still need to have real production of some things, especially food, and they need to get a little sunlight and fresh air... but that can also be aided by the internet... the innovation and knowledge creation (especially open source) and bottom up organization could enable non-proprietary production that allows people to function in the real world with less reliance on industrial infrastructure.
How could we ensure that people pay the real cost of disposal? Well, the government could stop enabling us. If nobody ran the sewer system, we would all be forced to deal with our own shit and use composting toilets. If nobody collected the garbage, we would be forced to only buy stuff that composted or pay for more transportation ourselves. I suppose the government could also tax waste, but that might backfire. Less laws, doing less and accomplishing with simple moves, is better.
And our currency system doesn't help this either. Creating money out of debt forces us to liquidate more natural resources by necessitating a growth economy and consumerism.
All I want
— Feb 09, 2010
All I want Is food,
All I want is food,
All I want is food and creative love.
All bridges can be rebuilt.
