Why I'm NOT a Pacifist

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9
groks

I blame Derrick Jensen. In his book - Endgame II: Resistance - he lays down a thorough analysis of the abusive dynamics and how pacifism relates to this, over three chapters. I've picked out a few particularly salient quotes from each chapter, but I REALLY encourage you all to read the full chapters themselves:

PART I
http://www.endgamethebook.org/Excerpts/25%20-%20Pacifism%20I.html

"The people in power will not disappear voluntarily; giving flowers to the cops just isn’t going to work. This thinking is fostered by the establishment; they like nothing better than love and nonviolence. The only way I like to see cops given flowers is in a flower pot from a high window."

~William S. Burroughs

[...]

"It has always seemed clear to me that violent and nonviolent approaches to social change are complementary. No one I know who advocates the possibil-ity of armed resistance to the dominant culture’s degradation and exploitation rejects nonviolent resistance. Many of us routinely participate in nonviolent resistance and support those for whom this is their only mode of opposition."

[...]

"Those in power have effec-tively convinced us they own land, which is to say they’ve convinced us to give up our inalienable right to access our own landbases. They’ve effectively convinced us they own conflict resolution methods (which they call laws), which is to say they’ve convinced us to give up our inalienable right to resolve our own conflicts (which they call taking the law into your own hands). They’ve con-vinced us they own water. They’ve convinced us they own the wild (the government could not offer “timber sales” unless we all agreed it owned the trees in the first place). They’re in the process of convincing us they own the air. The state has for millennia been trying to convince us it owns a monopoly on violence, and abusers have been trying to convince us for far longer than that. Pacifists are more than willing to grant them that, and to shout down anyone who disagrees. "

[...]

PART II
http://www.endgamethebook.org/Excerpts/25%20-%20Pacifism%20I%20pt2.html

I’ve never heard of an abuser saying, “I hit you because I wanted to terrorize you into submission.” Instead he might say,“I wouldn’t have hit you if you wouldn’t have kept yelling and yelling and yelling at me about coming in so late.”

[...]

I keep thinking about that line by Gandhi, “We want freedom for our country, but not at the expense or exploitation of others.” I’ve also had this line crammed down my throat more times than I want to consider—often phrased as “You keep saying that in this struggle for the planet that you want to win, but if someone wins, doesn’t that mean someone has to lose, and isn’t that just perpetuating the same old dominator mindset?”—and I’ve always found it both intellectually dishonest and poorly thought-out.

A man tries to rape a woman. She runs away. Her freedom from being raped just came at his expense: he wasn’t able to rape her. Does this mean she exploited him? Of course not. Now let’s do this again. He tries to rape her. She can’t get away. She tries to stop him nonviolently. It doesn’t work. She pulls a gun and shoots him in the head. Obviously her freedom from being raped came at the expense of his life. Did she exploit him? Of course not. It all comes back to what I wrote earlier in this book: defensive rights always trump offensive rights. My right to freedom always trumps your right to exploit me, and if you do try to exploit me, I have the right to stop you, even at some expense to you.

[...]

PART III
http://www.endgamethebook.org/Excerpts/25%20-%20Pacifism%20I%20pt3.html

"It’s pretty clear to me that our horror of violence is actually a deep terror of responsibility. We don’t have issues with someone being killed. We have issues about unmediated killing, about doing it ourselves. And of course we have issues with violence flowing the wrong way up the hierarchy. "

[...]

Now it’s true that Gandhi perceived cowardice as worse even than violence (and please note that while I’m accusing Gandhi of fuzzy thinking, naïveté, and, as you’ll see in a while, misogyny, never would I accuse him of cowardice: the man was stone cold brave), saying, for example, “Where the choice is between only violence and cowardice, I would advise violence,” and “To take the name of non-violence when there is a sword in your heart is not only hypocritical and dishonest but cowardly.” Even more to the point—and if all of Gandhi’s words were this great he’d certainly be my hero—he said, “Though violence is not lawful, when it is offered in self-defence or for the defence of the defenceless, it is an act of bravery far better than cowardly submission. The latter befits neither man nor woman. Under violence, there are many stages and varieties of bravery. Every man must judge this for himself. No other person can or has the right.” And here’s one I like even more: “I have been repeating over and over again that he who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honour by nonviolently facing death may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden. He has no business to be the head of a family. He must either hide himself, or must rest content to live forever in helplessness and be prepared to crawl like a worm at the bidding of a bully.”

[...]

"Many killers—and nearly all exploiters—would vastly prefer intended victims not resist."

[...]

Let’s go back to the same basic example we’ve been using. A man breaks into a woman’s home. He pulls out a knife. He is going to rape and kill her. She has a gun. Perhaps if she just shows him by shining example the beauty of nonviolence, perhaps if she dies with courage and compassion on her lips—or if she offers herself to the butcher’s knife or throws herself into the sea from a cliff—she will convert his heart and he will realize the error of his ways and repent, to go and rape no more. Perhaps not. If she guesses wrong, she dies. And so do the rapist’s next victims.

Gandhi’s statement reveals an almost total lack of understanding of both abu-sive and psychopathological dynamics. His comment is one of the worst things you can say to anyone in an abusive situation, and one of the things abusers most want to hear. As I mentioned earlier, among the most powerful allies of abusers are those who say to victims, “You should show him some compassion even if he has done bad things. Don’t forget that he is a human, too.” As Lundy Bancroft commented, “To suggest to her that his need for compassion should come before her right to live free from abuse is consistent with the abuser’s outlook. I have repeatedly seen the tendency among friends and acquaintances of an abused woman to feel that it is their responsibility to make sure that she realizes what a good person he really is inside—in other words, to stay focused on his needs rather than her own, which is a mistake.” I want to underscore that Gandhi’s perspective is, following Bancroft, “consistent with the abuser’s outlook.”
***********************************************

I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend that you also read his chapters on Abusers:

http://www.endgamethebook.org/Excerpts/23%20-%20Abusers.html

http://www.endgamethebook.org/Excerpts/24%20-%20Abusers%20pt2.html

Comments

"I also cannot tell you how

"I also cannot tell you how many times I have been told that I must have compassion for CEOs, who are human too, and who once were children. We must never hurt their feelings, nor especially their person. We must always be polite to those who are killing us. If we insist on using any hint of violence, we are told, if we absolutely must kill them back, we must kill them only with kindness. This is supposed to somehow be effective at something. But the only one it helps is the perpetrator. "

Derrick at one time believed

Derrick at one time believed in peace and like many fail to grok what Gandhi has to say. I strongly disagree with what he is advocating these days and consider his language strategy to support his ideology dishonest.

Derrick deserves respect for the great deal of his time he continues to spend fighting the uphill battle for what he believes in.

He is an intelligent challenging and fun read/listen. People should check him out to further refine their future reactions in a conscious manner.

Gandhi's message is a sure and easy win with minimal grief.

Millions march dressed head to toe in white. Courage, discipline, silent determination, patience. Any force used against them results in embarrassment, eventually they give in to the truth.

Violent strategy leads to a quick excuse for violent force and a police state that the herd will easily accept.

For all those interested in Gandhi's methods you should just watch the movie 'Gandhi', watch the movie 'Fierce Light', search the net, read about Satyagraha, and check out Father John Dear's book(s).

Thanx for bringing up Derrick Jensen thoughts Vincenz0h. I almost did myself because he is so influential. (and I am a stick in his mud)

I think an important discussion for evolvers could ensue and will 'grok it up'.

take care.

"Millions march dressed head

"Millions march dressed head to toe in white. Courage, discipline, silent determination, patience. Any force used against them results in embarrassment, eventually they give in to the truth."

These are people who routinely torture and murder innocent people. They don't feel the slightest bit embarrassed about whooping some pacifists' asses. Plus, I'm not trying to embarrass these people (they clearly have not shame and will rationalize whatever terrible actions they commit), I'm trying STOP them!

"Violent strategy leads to a quick excuse for violent force and a police state that the herd will easily accept."

Non-violent actions are also an excuse for police to use violence. That being said, police aren't looking for an "excuse"... when do police ever NEED an excuse to be violent? They use violence every day as a matter of standard operating procedure. Please stop trying to legitimize the state's monopoly on violence. In my opinion we need to level the playing field. Abusers need to be afraid of their victims, and pacifists need to stop keeping victims of abuse from pushing back.

You know what happened to Ghandi? He got shot. And India is still one of the most oppressed and poverty stricken places on the planet.

also, I think it's bs to

also, I think it's bs to imply that Derrick just didn't "grok" what Ghandi was saying. I think he grokked it perfectly and realized that he disagreed with it.

Thank you for this

I totally get it and it needs to be expressed. That being said, there are nuances to this. Bullies who have more power will react to violence with even more violence. Take a look at what happens to Palestinians when their kids throw rocks at gun toting soldiers. Their houses get bulldozed over, they get shot, their fathers get thrown in jail, and worse. Bullies have no tolerance for violence directed at them. That being said, people should have the right to defend themselves. The question is, how is that possible when the scales are tipped so unevenly toward the bully?

Find you soul...it's the one thing only you can do.

this is part of the abuser's

this is part of the abuser's strategy of control (Derrick deals with this in the chapters about abuse and abusers, you should really read them :) ).

I'm not suggesting that the answer is to increasingly escalate the level of violence, especially on large institutional/societal scales. But we have to realize that the reason that the bully/abuser does this is because when we fight back they perceive it as a REAL threat to their power, which it is. Thus they go to extremes to reassert their dominance because they are psychopathic control freaks.

But I don't see how people can say that the best strategy is to martyr ourselves, and let the cops beat and murder us (somehow making them feel guilty/embarrassed, thus leading them to "see the truth") and then in the next breath say that we can't fight back or else we'll bring down the violence of the state onto our heads. This is the argument of a coward, and is flat out contradictory. (I'm not saying that this is the argument you're making Selma, but many other people do and will).

Also, don't blame Palestinian children for the cruel and genocidal actions of the Israeli soldiers. This kind of thinking is consistent with the worldview of the abuser. "I wouldn't have had to beat you if you would cook a decent meal/stop nagging me/ etc" = "I wouldn't have to kill your children if they stopped throwing rocks at us"

Really, really, REALLY... please read the chapters on abusers... they are real eye openers.

It is not only about the

It is not only about the appealing to the police's heart by not fighting back.

The most important part of the strategy is how the theater looks to all those sitting around at home watching it on TV and reading about it in the paper around the world.

A peaceful strategy increases the number of members in your movement.

God forbid we offend the

God forbid we offend the schlubs getting their news from corporate media.

If we constantly worry and build a strategy that is too overly concerned about alienating the class of people who benefit the most from oppression, then this will be a losing strategy. Fuck those people. I'm not really concerned with what they think anymore, and I'm not going to tailor my behavior to keep them happy.

When a black kid from any inner city ghetto, or a Native American on a reservation, or a Mexican in Chiapas or Oaxaca, or a Palestinian in occupied terrirtory... when THESE people see a window being smashed at a global trade summit, they are NOT alienated. They identify with that, and are most likely glad to see young white kids taking drastic measures to fight back on their behalf.

And the truth is that quite a few middle class Americans are enthralled by romantic images of masked revolutionaries fucking shit up.

I'm not saying that riots and armed resistance are the answer. People have to think VERY carefully about their goals, strategies, and tactics. But I just think that we need to get away from this notion that the goal of a movement should be to get good press at the expense of being effective. Trying to remain appealing to the corporate media basically amounts to letting the cops define the tactics you use to resist (or in the case of pacifists, not resist).

"Many Indians have asked

"Many Indians have asked these questions about the civilized. I have asked these same questions about CEOs, corporate journalists, politicians. How do these people sleep at night?

Soundly, in comfortable beds, in 5,000 square foot homes, behind gates, with private security systems, thank you very much.

* * *

It is others who lose sleep over their activities."

thanks for the link...

Let our little light shine.

The deeper conflict is for minds with logic and the mind of the heart. Both are distinct minds, i'm persuaded. Both need addressing. The challenge is to over-shadow the "bread and circuses" ,( little changed since Nero, while Rome burned). It would benefit little, if big explosions burst out all over, perhaps in the next riveting deception. It serves little to cheer coming demagogues. Self preservation may return as a discipline, but both minds will be needed, to preserve. How will folks develop balanced minds? Who will offer means and methods for conscience? When so many go to bed hungry? When even the rich starve themselves of true nutrition? Evolution will probably cull the mindless, both high and low.

Holding Ground

All that is required is to hold your ground from the very beginning ... and there is never an accumulation of power to begin with. Each a source of power unto themselves.

While I agree with you in

While I agree with you in some respects, how do you expect anyone to win a violent battle with the evils of the world, when they are so heavily armed? You can't. You and whatever "army" you put together will be crushed the moment you step out of your homes with revolutionary intention, murdered in fact by the very government who gives you the "right" to organize.

And what if you could, what if you won? Then your authority would rest upon your ability to maintain a physical superiority to those who oppose you. You would have to continue to fight until the day you die to keep your autonomy.

How do you see this cycle being broken if you use violence to fight violence? What do you forsee for the human race? And if it's death and destruction that you see, then how do you rebuild so that the cyclic violence is discontinued?

“An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come.”-Victor Hugo

Big Army

To defeat such a neo-armed force ... one has to defeat the minds and hearts of those holding the weapons ... not an impossible task, all said and done. Armies have overthrown their own masters, good or bad many. many times over history

Gandhi Quote

"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence....I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honour than that she should, in a cowardly manner, become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonour."

(... and no, that's not the full quote, just the part I am most resonating with in this conversation):
http://www.100000quotes.com/author/Mahatma-Gandhi/)

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