Redefining the Self in an Age of Collapse
posted by Rebecca Lerner | October 12, 2009
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IcerocketAs the recession deepens and unemployment worsens, we move closer to a barter economy. Many of us are out of work and need to find ways of meeting our basic needs that sidestep the convoluted matrix of chain stores and mega-markets, because our wallets won't support us the conventional way. So we find security within ourselves, recognizing that what is most valuable is what we can give each other. We all have unique gifts, some of which we have recognized, others which lay as yet undiscovered.
Inside every heart is a memory of another way, a time in the past, a time in the future. Connect with this -- it will lead you to your tribe and your place in it. A sustainable community would have healers, foragers, hunters, clothing makers, musicians, artists, teachers, mediators, warriors, elders, child-tenders, farmers, chefs, shelter-builders, scouts, trackers, storytellers, and shamans. Most likely you already know that you are one of these things, or perhaps several of these things. This is a time to follow your curiosities and cultivate connections with like-minded friends.
When the chains of capitalism break apart, our only bonds will be to each other.
Comments
breaking free from the matrix...
— Oct 12, 2009
An important post, I like what you said about finding security within ourselves and through community, a non-monetary based community, a gift economy....
Community-sufficiency does appear to be the ideal for a sustainable and healthy interaction with the Earth and each other... I think veganic eco-villages are particularly the way to go, realizing that our health and happiness are not at all dependent on the suffering or killing of other beings...
As for figuring out ways to get there, basically I think it comes down to Land Reform, e.g. redistribution of land ownership, otherwise we will always be subservient to another, we will always be a "slave" to a "master", we need to break down all hierarchy from human to human and human to animal...
You may find this post compliments what you're talking about, it even has a similar title!:
http://colindonoghue.wordpress.com/2009/01/10/redefining-poverty-wealth/
Im still working on it so any suggestions would be appreciated
lovepeace
C
future trabalism as ultimate human ideal
— Oct 12, 2009
Socialism does not reach it's height in Communism, but rather can, and must, take on the better virtues of Anarchy. Social-Anarchy is the formation of autonomous societies formed out of shared goals, beliefs, and values; communicating openly with the rest of the world, and tending toward sustainable lifestyles; but free from any laws beyond the sanctity for life. Much of the world will not care to adopt such heavy freedom and responsibility, and will cling to old factions...But through dedication, as the network of individuals and communities grows, the weight of common sense will prevail. We must stop squabbling over borders and beliefs, find our selves as individuals, and show compassion to all...a very huge task.
If history is a progression, and humanity survives; truth, individual freedom and responsibility will take rightful place in the hearts and minds of all; there will be no more nations, economies, or wars. If people start writing fiction on how these societies will function, and face the trials of such a shift, the general public will be turned onto the idea much faster. Before any of this is actualized it must be conceptualized and disseminated through acts of beauty and entertainment...and Blog posts help to! Thanks!~Eric
I don't pretend to know how
— Oct 12, 2009
I don't pretend to know how exactly this shift can be engineered, but I do agree with you that the most appealing version is the anarchist one. I'm not for taking land from people or redistributing wealth. I'm for many small groups of people collectively and consensually making it work for themselves. Bottom up, not top down.
Your point about fiction paving the way is awesome. Makes me wish I wrote that kind of stuff, but I'm not wired that way.
The engineering happens
— Oct 12, 2009
The engineering happens subconsciously, and when it is developed will come out through action. There are enough of us with knowledge and assets to reform social structures. In the past governments have resisted this. Even communist china would not allow cities to exist as independent communes (duh that is the truest form of communism, small tribal like organizations).
The problem is that a few have control over masses of people and think that they will never get what they want done through cooperation. They hold the money/land and demand labor in exchange for money/land. If enough people with money/land can realize they are slaves to their illusion of mastery, and use that power to reinvent the whole social network...change happens from the top and bottom, meeting peacefully at center.
On the other hand, if no one wants to give up that money/land, there is no other means than revolution; which is unfortunate as it nearly always backfires. But none of that is very urgent because we have to try and get the ideas out there first before we can expect people to stop everything and re-plan the whole system.
I imagine there are many already working on their own visions of autonomous sustainable communities. Somewhere must be a dictation of what is the all connecting ideals of such communities. Force and violence for obtaining desires is the first act to be universally banished, which means any violent revolution to obtain these goals is immediately defeated by its own irony. Pollution is one of the top concerns, because we want this modern lifestyle but can't afford all of it in the long run.
With just these basic issues, it becomes clear that the diplomat and philosopher will have to play a crucial role in this being achieved peacefully and effectively. Either we figure it out, a dictator government forces us to live sustainably, or nature deals with us. I like the first option best, but can honestly say I have no fear of dictators or nature either.
I can't write fiction either, mainly because I don't like making up names for characters, always seems forced to me. There are a lot of stories of distopias, but very few utopias in fiction. Island by Aldous Huxley is the only one that comes to mind. We are just way to pesimistic as a species. All the fear of one world government...entirely unfounded, and discouraging to talks of unity. Any One World Government, no matter how "evil" it is, would just as likely fall into the hands of people who were actually fit to determine the fate of humanity (I am sure such people exist). I guess what I am trying to say is, no need for fear. The only reason social-anarchy seems better to me than a one world government is that it offers more room for creative freedom. Either will rule better than these squabbling nations are at present.
I <3!
— Oct 12, 2009
I love all ye folks on this wavelength here! My greatest challenge lately, has become patience. I have a firmly developed 3d problem solving type of mind habit in the day-world. But I'm coming to understand things differently, or at another level which does not exclude the former. All of creation is sending out waves, whispering and singing, just like I used to know when I was a kid in the woods. I got trained away from that kind of knowing as an adult, and have been doing hard time here ever since! Remembering to re-engage the simple peace of the moment has been greatly facilitated by my long unemployment. "Love-walks" such as GodIAm posted about recently, are taken in the now much more frequently. I'm not so sure that this evolution will be engineered by anybody, so much as by everybody in tune.
It drives my 3d mind crazy sometimes! But it's also beautiful and exciting! Word to my tribe, when can we have the bonfire dance? And where in the world will it be? Perhaps by next year we will have learned how to assemble in the one place we can all reach into most easily, out-of-this-world!
River, your last sentence
— Oct 13, 2009
River, your last sentence led me to imagine an astral meeting place. But in a sense, that is what the internet already is. A place where our thoughts and souls can be present even as our physical bodies have no bearing on space or time.
Also, a thought...it seems that concepts bounce around the universal subconscious, just waiting for expression, coming, like you wrote, in waves.
thanks for sharing your
— Oct 13, 2009
thanks for sharing your insight into bartering. the ideological gap between people does make it a hazardous practice (when dealing with the capitalist mindset). A community bound by shared ideals, and excluding those who have not proven trustworthy is necessary to make it a complete lifestyle. Exclusion, secrecy, these are ideas that too often are given a negative connotation, but in this world we live in, some things must be done undercover amongst the like minded; without involvement from the outside world. And we must choose our friends very carefully by their inner virtues. Of course being friendly to those who are complete jackasses is nice too, just don't let them in on things.
Sister, Thanks for sharing
— Oct 13, 2009
Sister,
Thanks for sharing your experience. Can I ask what sorts of things you bartered? I'm currently attempting to barter wildcrafted smoking mixtures and homemade tinctures in exchange plant foods wildcrafted by friends. So far no one has actually offered me anything, but the reception to the idea has been good. You do bring up a good point -- I'm not sure what quantity of each will feel like an even trade. Money does have the advantage of offering a standardized value.
I wrote too much!
— Oct 15, 2009
I have so much I could write to within this discussion! And indeed, within the blogs of everyone here. But out of respect and gratitude for everyone's contribution I hope to keep it concise. Sister Who, I can feel the depth of your compassion so clearly. And I have enough life experience to know that sort of clarity does not come from a life of ease. I just wanted to say that if it weren't for such a strikingly similar situation in my own life, I might still be paying all this internet attention/love to slahdot.org. Truly an amazing web-place in it's own right! And worth a visit for a glimpse of our unfurling post-sci-fi future.
My friend and I had designed a home, three complete iterations in fact, for a Realtor who was newly excited about going green. We agreed to do it all together on a happy-happy win-win speculative basis. When the successful home design was financed, we designers would receive our just rewards. Well, none of us foresaw that the lending institutions would re-write their rules so drastically after last October's market shift. Our co-speculator was unable to finance the design, and Wow! what a huge amount of good work was wasted. A whole year's worth! We never thought to write that eventuality into our agreement, so technically it's all on the up and up. But my friend and I, we're struggling a way lot harder now. The process seems to have it's own intelligence, however. I don't even know how to begin to place a value on all the information I've received here.
Which brings me to Doobius. Thanks for sharing your website and your vision. I just logged into the front page tonight. I'm sure there's a lot more to explore there. It's on my wave, and I wish you all the best with your courageous venture! And now I am not only aware of your work, but I have a way to keep tabs on it! (Firefox pun intended). Maybe I'll be able to visit you someday.
Which leads to my next point. This online discussion prompted an important offline discussion between my fiancee and I earlier tonight. She works her ass off at our local Hospital and is going to school for her Masters in Social Work simultaneously. She just returned from an important overseas study trip to Köln, in Germany. What she has to report is simply stunning.
Street art everywhere. High urban density. Spontaneous street performances. Everyone is well cared for at a 50% tax rate. Addicts can take two years or more off of work at country retreats staffed by enlightened caregivers. The old people there laugh at the U.S., and consider us socially barbaric. They care for and ennoble their deep history. The outlying countryside is peaceful, returning to wilderness in a cultivated fashion, and accessible. She danced with Spider-man in the street! Too many stories to write. All quite wondrous. Beer still glues their people together.
Fast-forward to the present moment. My best friend is leaving here to do this on the ground, at last, one State away. Even as I am going crazy with the fever of wanting it all to have happened yesterday. Making the shelter, energy, water, food, and care-giving systems real is no small endeavor. I was telling my fiancee that I have a choice to make. Should I go right now and spend my time with like-minded folks who are pioneering the new reality? Or should I stick to my plans and work from where we are, even if that means we could be working alone for a while yet. I have kids to raise, y'know. And do you know what she came up with? She said, "Why don't you just visit those people and bring it back home?" Well, that's why I love her so!
The bonfires are popping up around the world. And somehow, I have to visit and share in full bandwidth with some of them. Even as I hold my local work steadfast in the foreground. This is big folks. And it's real. And it includes us all, because we have so much to teach and learn from each other.
I'm planning to take a break from the info-stream for a bit, in order to re-ground and re-center. And catch up on all the ignored books I have open on my desk. Here is my reading list:
1. "Coyote's Guide: to Connecting with Nature"
John Young, Ellen Haas, Evan McGowan
2. "The Transition Handbook: From oil dependency to local resilience"
Rob Hoskins
3. "Last Child in the Woods: Saving our children from nature-deficit disorder"
Richard Louv
4. "Mycelium Running: How Mushrooms Can Help Save the World"
Paul Stamets
Thank you, thank you, thank you all! I'll be listening!
Wild Freedom
— Oct 13, 2009
We are in the beginning stages of imagining, forging, crafting, planting, building and creating a new way of living together in balance and harmony with Pachamama. In addition to creating our community, we are planting the seeds to form a network of communities that work together and support each other through trading surpluses of food and goods that are produced within different communities and to give labor and knowledge to help with building and establishing new projects. We invite you to join us on the Salka Vida Network:
http://www.salkavida.ning.com
The next phase begins in March 2010.
there you go
— Oct 13, 2009
That is what we are talking about. It is happening and here is one that is gonna happen in Costa Rica, and I am sure will be in contact with others around the world for feedback and support. Good going, we can do it together!
Doobius, Thank you for the
— Oct 13, 2009
Doobius,
Thank you for the link! Very cool project indeed! I'm going to tell friends in the wild community about it.
My mission of the moment is to bring the wild freedom, as you put it, to the city people, so that we see it where we are instead of as something that exists elsewhere. I'll blog about that soon. Namaste to you!
bringing it to the city people.
— Oct 13, 2009
i like that idea, and tried to take it on through art when i was living in reading. if any of you have been to reading in the past 10 years, you know how impoverished it is (2nd highest murder per capita in the u.s. a few years ago). from my perspective, it is getting better, and my case in point is the art project that i took on while living there. you would think that a white boy doing mandalas on the streets might attract the wrong attention in such a city. on the contrary, people were always very friendly and interested in what i was doing, even had materials donated by strangers. if something so esoteric can reach through to the "lower class", than surely, something as pertinent as sustainable living must also be translatable to the urban environment.
I haven't been to Reading --
— Oct 13, 2009
I haven't been to Reading -- is that Reading, Pa? Would love to see pictures of the mandalas. Super cool.
I will elaborate on this later in another blog post, but I am particularly interested in urban foraging (my site: www.FirstWays.com), and I have noticed that the poorer places actually have more food/medicine resources than the wealthier places, because the poorer places let the plants go wild rather than bother paying landscapers to remove them. There must be some kind of lesson in that common theme...
reading
— Oct 13, 2009
yes it is in pa. not a bad place, but a lot of room for improvement. urban foraging, now that sounds awesome. reading is one of those cities that has a lot of old architecture crumbling and overgrown with foliage, so probably a good place for that. thankfully someone recorded one of my mandalas being made and time lapsed the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VkSH1Etit8&feature=channel_page
i will check out your site.
time to get practical / the actual reality of the situation
— Oct 13, 2009
"I'm not for taking land from people or redistributing wealth. I'm for many small groups of people collectively and consensually making it work for themselves. Bottom up, not top down."
Without the land how can these small groups make it work? As long as we are disconnected from the Earth, we can not separate from the current corporate-profit system, nor can we form thriving eco-village communities. And as for a "bottom up, not top down" approach being ideal I totally agree, the corporations and massive land-owners are certainly not going to volunteer their land over to the People!
Please read the following short and excellent piece:
http://www.tlio.org.uk/TheLand/manifesto.html
& think more about this fundamental first step that is necessary in order for us to create and live in a new principled paradigm, based on compassion, justice, equality and freedom.
Thank you for sharing your
— Oct 13, 2009
Thank you for sharing your thought-provoking essay, Satyagrahi.
It is not necessary to tear apart what it is in order to create what could be. We can create what we want now. Others will come along on board and the old ways will fall away and decay on their own time.
You wrote, "Without the land how can these small groups make it work? "
Many folks in my life already do barter. We don't have to overthrow governments or economic systems to do that. Some people do yard work to get discounts on rent; others trade food for medicine or clothing; I exchange publicity for education (herbalists teach me stuff, I post about what I learned on my blog, and I link to their sites so others can find them).
"As long as we are disconnected from the Earth, we can not separate from the current corporate-profit system, nor can we form thriving eco-village communities."
My view is that we are not disconnected from the Earth. Certainly most of us aren't living in the trees, but if we look around us, we'll see wild plants growing along the roadsides, animal hides waiting to become clothing in the streets, sumac berries waiting to become tea. We already live in eco-village communities, if only we open our eyes.
The most radical visions can be realized one step at a time.
Very good writing Wild Girl.
— Oct 13, 2009
Very good writing Wild Girl. Concise yet powerful, to the point of poetry.
In terms of being able to determine the value of bartering, one idea could be simply to barter with hours of time. One hour of doctoring for one hour of food distribution, and so on.
The key, at any rate, would be to develop an exchange system whereby the values involved can't be hoarded, where there isn't this 10% of the population owning 90% of the wealth and thus creating elitism.
Renunciation and Connectivity
— Oct 14, 2009
Wild Girl,
This is a great dialogue you've opened up, thank God/creator for this site! I'd like to be optimistic and think that we people on the path to awakening are the majority, but looking at our world it's obvious that we are not. I believe the only way to make serious change and to do it now is to renounce those things which will only hold us back. As an individual we have tremendous power to influence others in a positive and enlightening way. This is why I do not drink, smoke, eat meat, own a car, practice composting and urban gardening, engage in any mind altering substances, hang my laundry, buy sustainable products etc. etc... We all need more examples that don't think self-righteously of themselves but live in a mindfull and disciplined way so "the masses" can see that detachment from materialism, consumerism, and all the ism's can be done.
A good friend of mine humorously calls the masses "sheeple". I don't think it is our job to try and influence people to wake up, they of course must find the path to do it themselves. But I do think we must interact with them as often, and on all levels as possible. This includes the political realm, the business realm, the education realm, healthcare realm...all of it. I would LOVE to become a billionaire and be running a multi-national corporation. I would have tremendous influence and I would be playing on "their" level. We need more of "us" in positions with "them". I know it's terrible to draw lines in the sand and even have "us" and "them" but some of us want to live in a better world and some of us want to rape the world.
So I think in renouncing the "ism's", products that harm the environment and other people, and lifestyle choices that are generally looked down upon, we can connect with the "sheeple" and make change from within.
Education
— Oct 13, 2009
I think one of the things holding us back from this future (besides the above mentioned land redistribution issues) is helping educate ourselves and others about the ridiculous amount of free food, medicine, and materials out there.
There are many ways to sustainably harvest food, medicine, and even clothing from our environment. How would Wal-Mart and other corporations like it if everybody realized that they could grow most of their own food and make way more durable clothes on their own?
We just have to stop working 50-60 hour work weeks and teach ourselves and others how to do these things.
We and the planet would probably be a lot happier.
"The wilderness holds all truth and knowledge."
Ingwe
amen to that
— Oct 13, 2009
By man made products alone, I am amazed at how little money I have to spend. I rarely pay for art supplies, there are so many people with extra material, so I am given all I need. This is not even in trade, because these are friends that know I will make them all kinds of art without payment or trade necessary. i once got offered a motor bike and when i asked if i could do anything for them, they only wanted a piece of art. so much of non monetary sustainability comes from a very informal trade. it is reciprocity, and we rock it responsibly! by that i mean. help each other out with out expectation, and it will be returned. there is a sense of universal brotherhood, even amongst slightly crooked people, we need to use that to propel us into this kind of free structured sustainability. foreign goods are really the only "real" problem. most we don't really need, and foreign relations will get better as people witness these kinds of improvements. but the pessimist will say there are just a lot of bad people out there who wont let it happen, i don't believe that. true will is stronger.
We should
— Oct 13, 2009
We shouldn't give up now.
http://www.evolver.net/user/walter_shannon/blog/chris_hedges_empire_illu...
We should stand up while we still can
the future exisist now!
— Oct 13, 2009
Harry F Brewster II
I love hearing theres people out there who have let go, and on the move toward reconnection with are planet. This is wonderful I will be very interested in learning more and getting involve to evolve this shift to the 5th world.
Peace and love!
I like how you put that:
— Oct 14, 2009
I like how you put that: "Let go." Yes, let go, just create.
still not facing the root problem
— Oct 16, 2009
Thank you for your response 'Wild Girl', though I don't think what you are saying is applicable to most of humanity, or most Americans.
You said:
"My view is that we are not disconnected from the Earth. Certainly most of us aren't living in the trees, but if we look around us, we'll see wild plants growing along the roadsides, animal hides waiting to become clothing in the streets, sumac berries waiting to become tea. We already live in eco-village communities, if only we open our eyes."
Firstly, my eyes are open and I certainly dont see lots of ecovillages (you may want to look into what those actually are), and I see most people with an extremely limited connection and interaction with Nature/Earth. Secondly, is gathering wild plants on roadsides (which often are sprayed with herbicides by the State), roadkill, and berries on other people's property, the owner's of which probably don't want many people trespassing on their land taking their berries, a viable vision for a sustainable and economically just future? Again, if we don't legally have the right to grow our own food because the land is not our own, we can barely move forward. And most people cant afford their own land because our economic system is inherently unjust.
And to reply to 'Pathfinder' who said the following:
"How would Wal-Mart and other corporations like it if everybody realized that they could grow most of their own food and make way more durable clothes on their own? We just have to stop working 50-60 hour work weeks and teach ourselves and others how to do these things. We and the planet would probably be a lot happier."
I completely agree but the same aforementioned problem prevents this from becoming a reality!! It appears through the process of elimination, logic, history, and our own ineffective efforts the issue of land ownership remains the fundamental roadblock... Any suggestions on how we may collectively resolve that issue would be welcomed.
Peace
satyagrahi
— Oct 17, 2009
we are not disconnected from the earth. to late for that. to much time evolving here to escape it. kinda seem though a lot of people dont realize how connected they are. those same plants you talk about that people seem to not notice.. well they are. these systems, even the weeds on the side of the road effect us. my roommate was comlaining about his allergies. i told him to weed our yard and but he didnt. dont think he knows what pollen is. anyways, i think the one really good point of paying attention to the life forms (plants) that we normally ignore is an exercise in realizing the lessons of the earths life balance and how it relates to our internal balance and specifically what other cultures that have used the earth more intimately as an example of what can be done. i admit im not too knowledgeable about such things as wild girl is but it seems that these lessons have dire implication. now, on to the original subject, how does this relate to barter and what implications does it have for our desired outcome?
sustainability
— Nov 23, 2009
Compelling ... For a decided turn, try VHEMT, the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, not because it might dampen discussion, but because it speaks soberly about survival of the planet. www.vhemt.org
We're all "Lerner" on this one!
Onward
getting warmer
— Oct 14, 2009
This idea is golden.
At a turning point we will adopt a rule of inclusion. "recognizing that what is most valuable is what we can give each other." The idea that everyone has something to barter focuses on the paradox that we are all the same and different all at once. We all have something different to give or trade, but at the same time, without a currency to have faith in, every individual takes part in a body of faith in the basic system of human capability.
A common problem here is that most people aren't self aware enough to know what they have to contribute.
Nikkolaus, What a fantastic
— Oct 14, 2009
Nikkolaus,
What a fantastic post. So much to think about. You are 100% right. For those who are still wondering what they may have to contribute, I would offer these clues gleaned from my own personal search for value:
1) It is probably very obvious. It piques your curiosity and your pursuit of it is fun, or at least it doesn't feel draining or boring. (Do you like to fish? Work with energy? Gather plant medicines? Make tools?)
2) It may not be material.
3) It may shift in different contexts.
4) It might be time to learn some skills. Hehe.
This post rocks
— Oct 14, 2009
I was deeply touched by the profoundness (is that a word?) of your post. I truly believe that this is the only way to go, and that the future depends entirely on us being able to become the change we wish to see manifested on a large scale, and therefore we must regroup, rethink and redesign, so that we are not only apart of creation but so that we consciously become part of its creative process. We don't need a lot more knowledge, only a lot of initiative, a bit of land, and the radiance that we can fill the world with if we choose to do so. Much Respect and Love from Denmark, Scandinavia, Northern Europe.
Good luck and all the best.
Athena
— Oct 14, 2009
You have put forward this essential part of our new paradigm in such an inviting way, thank you.
Having many wonderful experiences with bartering I thought I would share the aspects they seemed to have in common. First, here is a short list of what some of those experiences were: trading raw goat milk for silver jewelry, trading riding lessons for organic pastries from my riding students' fathers' bakery (a long term arrangement), trading a television commercial for an acoustic guitar for my daughter, trading credits on my documentary for meals for the whole crew, helping neighbors "get rid of" their excess fruit by picking it and taking it to homeless shelters....
One thing that made these trades easy was that the services or products I offered for barter, were sold regularly so there was already a set monetary fee and I made it clear what that fee was. Another was that my proposed bartering partner and I listened carefully to what each other's needs were. I never succumbed to pressure to trade for something that I did not want or need. I usually talked again with that partner during the time the barter was happening to make sure it was working well for them.
Maybe you would consider, Wild Girl, posting a list of bartering needs and wants for people....more difficult maybe on the www, but worth a try.
Bartering well brings us closer to the tribal society we need to manifest our love for Pachmama and our respect for all our relations.
I enjoyed reading this, but
— Oct 14, 2009
I enjoyed reading this, but at the same time, it's hard not to play devil's advocate. I'm with satyagrahi. I don't think this is completely applicable to everyone.
I *do* think it's a well-written post, and I am encouraged that so many people here try to proceed with optimism... but being realistic, or even pessimistic, has its own value.
I've said it before on here, and I'll say it again... revolutions end in bloodshed. I can't stress that enough. We ask for it without considering the possible consequences. I think we toss the word around because we want change, and we want it right now, but we don't determine the losses and gains when we demand it.
It's wise to ponder the idea of being radical... because a lot of people who are radical can easily become tuned out if their ideas have no way of fitting among everyone. But then again, they wouldn't be radical otherwise =) But it's something everybody should think on.
In all fairness, this is not the way I would want to live, when we get down to specifics. I don't say that to be obtrusive, that's just me. What I'm saying is we need to combat fundamentals -- ways of thinking that impede our relationship with the earth, our relationships with the complex system we're just a part of -- moreso than create a utopia. Utopias, whether they be isolated or whether we create our own out in the open, utopias are just plain idealistic.
Now, I think when this is kept simply, you have a great point. Yeah, we do need solutions to meet our basic needs -- but maybe they should be treated as alternatives, rather than the way we'll do things, everybody everywhere, from now on. Too much of a monolith, it won't work.
And we're talking about capitalism here. If we're going to deconstruct such a thing, we need to know its weaknesses. If you go out and live solely on trade all you're doing is creating less business, which puts more people out of work. I mean, you can't have it both ways, you can't deconstruct capitalism without putting people out of a job.
Long story short, there's not enough talk about possible consequences of such a revolution. I like how you wrote it originally and it is written to be empowering, and I appreciate that, but the sad truth is there are no quick solutions to initiate a rupture in capitalism. Capitalism works for some people, but not all people... but that doesn't mean the system is completely defective. Am I defending its virtue? Hell no! I'm just saying that if it were completely defective we wouldn't still be using it to get by.
But I think this is an important conversation, even though I don't totally agree with anybody here. Thanks for the post
-Joanne
joanne. i am agreed.
— Oct 17, 2009
i have been thinking about your point for a while now. i was going to mention it in my original post on the subject but i have been going over my ideas on such "bloodshed" since reading your warning on the reality of such a revolution and you are right about the fact that many will hold on to old ways even if it makes violence an option. as much as i hate using the term "civil war" pertaining to the u.s. online, i have to say i know this harshness to be a sad reality for now. in my home of spokane there is a proposition in the works in which it will be a law of my city to focus all available business interests on local establishments. essentially, this would be cutting off what my city makes most of its money from,... development. i agree with this intention. however i have met many so far that claim they owe the system of capitalism and development for keeping their families alive. i know if faced with me they would take action if not for themselves but for their family. they dont care about capitalism or socialism or anything besides keeping food on said table and keeping roof over said heads. what i want to hear from a community such as this evolving one, is how do we deal with people that, apathetic to the reality of capitalistic failure, only have one way they fell life can be lived? my answer to this involves speaking to a certain part of said "oppositions" soul. already i have seen some posts here describing questions of how to do so. questions like "how can we merge capitalism with doing the right thing?" and generally, what is the way in which art can be used to express the beauty of synchronicity to such souls? any ideas? if this evolution in human discourse is to be anything truly revolutionary we must find a way to win the hearts of the "enemy". (hard for me to say enemy lol). these people are our family. our brothers and sisters and parents and friends.
good questions joanne
— Oct 17, 2009
The closest I come to a family member with such attachments is a cousin who makes money as a landlord and forester. Landlords are the epitome of this quasi-feudal age, but not necessarily the first issue to address. Because development, like you mentioned, is the most impeding of industries on our hopes for sustainability. Foresting is probably linked to development, but would still exist to some degree regardless. My point is, I can see how he would be faced with change if lifestyle were to transition toward more sustainable, less capitalistic, means of survival. Than again, a lot of the jobs that I have had were pretty harsh on the environment, and I had to submit myself to work them just to make money to live. I don't have children, however, and so I am able to think in terms of radical change. Being out of work at this point in my life would be nothing new or frightening to me. But I understand that those who are attached to their lifestyle of consumerism, with kids who they have brought up to be consumers, would have a lot of trouble swallowing the need for change at the expense of their livelihood. The problem is, news and television in general conditions people to think they are expected to be "well off". It is nothing against television per say, just the corporations that run it, and of course they are run by families, who like you said, just want to keep the roof over their head. In extreme cases, like the Rockefellers, roof over the head is expected to be a mansion, therefore it takes millions of average well to do Americans, spending all their time working to support whatever pays for those mansions. Further into the process, it takes millions of impoverished families spending all their time working to support the industries that those American families buy into to pay for their houses. Meanwhile the environment is treated like everyone's bitch. I don't know how you could change it, other than possibly another cultural revolution which is global this time, and not just youth organized, but still with the edge of youth vitality. Envision that however. My idea of what that means is pretty clear.
Joanne, Thanks for noticing
— Oct 14, 2009
Joanne,
Thanks for noticing the spirit in which the post was intended.
I agree with you, actually, that capitalism does work for many people (chains for some, not all), and that it is not completely defective (few of us here starve). I have no interest in tearing down the system that exists -- no need for that. I anticipate that the present system will disintegrate on its own, because of the economic or political conditions, or peak oil, or perhaps because of its own unsustainable design in its present incarnation.
My interest is in encouraging people to create a framework for what comes next, and do it now. If we wait for later to create our future, it'll be too late.
keep in mind that there are
— Oct 14, 2009
keep in mind that there are a strong willed number of people who do feel very strongly about the collapse of the world economy, and they aren't the poor. so, wherther it seems to work nice for some wealthy nations, those with the power over its course will not always need such a large workforce. When people are massively out of work, which they certainly are, than chaos breaks out. Order out of Chaos is the name of the game; Refining the species through trials engineered by the elite. It is very a-moral, and whether money works or not, it is simply a-moral. So, we could choose to live barbarically, outright stealing, or emphatically, all sharing; but maybe playing the rat race is the trip we want. Either way, we all choose as individuals, and none of these states of being are higher, lower, or any more right for everyone.
"Either way, we all choose
— Oct 15, 2009
"Either way, we all choose as individuals, and none of these states of being are higher, lower, or any more right for everyone."
I wish more activists considered the truth of that statement.
Wise and Wild, Feral or Peril.
— Oct 14, 2009
You recognise intuitively what many are trying desperately to rememeber, that that which we know instinctively, and that which burns in every anguished acknowledgemnet of our situation, speaks the same truth: step as far as you can from this thrashing machine, because its poorly cobbled mechanism shows its weakness and its ill fitting parts wear thin.
Leading by example and investing in what is truely of value, is of utmost, not least in the shape of each other's hands. Skills and talents unrecognised, unrealised and apparently unwanted, now scream their worth.
leading
— Oct 17, 2009
a leader like this must also be a good teacher and a good follower. i think a point from this that i have derived whether you met it or not, is as follows.
in the evolution of the communal psyche, one gains a larger than normal (pre evolution) ability to be his own leader, teacher and follower. in order to do this however, the evolver must confront their own ego, and find a way to build a self example.
its funny that all my life i have been aware of this "beauty" and always had an idea that it "ran" life behind the scenes. i only accessed it when writing, otherwise it remained outside of my everyday life. i wasnt made aware of this "beauty" (which i have now found to be synchronicity) by anything more than my own artist capabilities. i feel in some way, and i dont want to get into specifics just yet, but generally, people can work to release what is in them that is of extreme and perfect beauty and when they see what they are worth then they can begin to contribute what they have to the greater lesson of teaching, leading and following their own souls.
Barter Old Age vs, New Age
— Oct 15, 2009
Before currency was created, usury , interest and debt $lavery there was barter. Barter has never gone away. In fact I was involved in the barter community for 25 years and I think it is very noble. I was involved in the professional barter groups that are international. It is a multi-billion dollar economy. Groups such as Barter Card, Barter Advantage, Barter Luxury , ITEX, etc... have locations internationally. I was involved in brokering barter deals as small as local advertising to huge real estate barter deals, medical services, travel, entertainment, construction, mechanics, jewelry, clothes, eyeglasses, gym memberships, basically anything from A-Z is barterable. The only cash involved was service fees payable to the barter companies to act as mediators between seller & buyer and whatever local taxes maybe involved...the rest was 100% barterable. It is proven that this is perhaps the most effective way to barter in the interenet age as it removes any of the difficulties that people may encounter when dealing with barter transactions. If a seller does not abide by ethical rules set by the barter community they are then not allowed to sell anymore. The beauty of being part of a barter group as well is that you can sell your goods and services and bank your credits and then spend it on what it is that you actually need as oppossed to being restricted to just a one to one barter situation. Barter is definitely better than fiat currency, for various reasons. It doesn't create usurious interest, you can at most times sell your goods /services at retail value and many times buy at wholesale value depending on what it is. So hope this helps those that are interested check out the following link and do a bit of research before you join a barter group. In most cases you can have your membership fee applied on a barter basis as opposed to paying cash... Namaste!
http://www.barterconsultants.com/works.cfm
http://barterwithu.com/index.html
http://www.newenglandtrade.com/
thanks soultraveler
— Oct 15, 2009
That's great info on bartering, thanks for sharing that, it definitely seems to be a crucial step in the right direction, now if we can just figure out the aforementioned land ownership problem... anyone familiar with land "trusts" or cooperatively owned land agreements? Or any other way the People can live on land they own with others as equals?
Concrete:Green Brain Ratio
— Oct 17, 2009
I thought this might be of interest:
http://www.raiazome.com/Bacillus23--Concrete-Green_Brain_Ratio
voluntary human extinction
— Nov 23, 2009
I am pretty certain that Tolstoy came to the conclusion toward the end of his life that the ultimate phase of humanity will be a voluntary extinction. To put him into context, he was the philosopher who first wrote much about the idea of nonviolent resistance. His writings influenced Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. He was a Christian and an anarchist, a combination which surprising works rather well together. Anyways, his idealism is appreciated by most people up until the point where he advocates voluntary extinction. He thought it would be the ultimate display of self mastery by humanity. On the other hand, there are those who view population control as a method of the New World Order to have a better grasp over the populace. It is tricky to me, because most of the ideas of the hidden elite, Rosicrucians, Free Masons, etc. are actually rather intelligent and only frightening when compared with the life of individual freedom which is supposedly the maxim of those who are in resistance. It is the balance between what is right for the individual and what is right for the whole. Unfortunately, most of what the average person has to go by is conspiracy theories which paint a very dark picture of the future, and look to the past with one eye closed. If one is to take the founding fathers of America as their ideal, as many in the resistance do, what about the slaves which they owned, what about the treaties they abandoned, and what about the fact that most were members of secret societies? If absolute freedom for the individual to consume and reproduce is the maxim of the resistance, than it will find itself amid the bottom rung of intellectual life, but perhaps that is who the conspiracy theorists wish to pander to. I don't know. It is all so convoluted. Intentions, good, or bad, are largely failable due to lack of information. That is the human condition, and we are best to accept what is and what comes without fear. With love.
